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"Win the Lottery" Home Garage Machine(s)?

M200 is the same concept- outside of those specialty, big finish turn parts- keep the XY part within the travels- 200mm x 200mm. Height is a little shorter as well ~ 100mm.

The M series machines are *not* turning monsters. Think of them as the opposite of a milling lathe - 90% Mill/10% lathe. Milling the bulk of material off is your best bet- use the turning for finish only. The machine won’t blow up if you rough turn on it- you’ll just be more efficient with an end mill.

My job shop M series customers are all on Lang zero point setups. You can spin these up to 3k RPM, so it is 1 minute to go from a 5 axis vise, to a 3 jaw chuck, to a dovetail fixture, to a pallet of parts, to a 5C collet block.

I have customers doing 5 axis milling, turning, and grinding in the same setup. Soon, there will be a factory option that will allow cylindrical grinding. Within the envelopes I’ve talked about, i don’t think it’s possible to find a more flexible or accurate machine for anything short of literally 3x the price.
Could a Capto spindle become available for the M300/M200? to remove the need for that side stop attachment.
Even if turning is a small portion of what this machine is used for it would have other benefits as well such as higher drawbar force.
I remember a mention of how Brother once offered a spindle choice of HSK 40E and it was plagued with problems, Maybe they are afraid of making a similar mistake again.
I have seen the Tsugami TMA8F or SS38MH with Capto C4 along with the willemin 408mt, the early willemin models used HSK with a side stop attachment, but now are offered directly with Capto. Both of these machines are frequently used for more milling than turning yet are offered with Capto.

I assume adding a spindle brake would be one reason they are reluctant to redesign their spindle for Capto.
The holders have became much cheaper, Maritool offers an ER16 for $225 whereas Sandvik wanted over $600
 
loto win, I would buy a new1460 lathe with a taper attachment,
and new surface grinder or a fresh scraped rebuild.
Might even buy a grinder big enough to be a way grinder.

Not as much fun but:
For producing parte a multy spindle Tornos might be the berries.
Tornos mini machine, (not a multi spindle but a fast multi tool lathe)
My nephew works for Tornos out of Chicago and goes around the world installing them in the UK, Poland, Germany, etc. Seems odd a US guy installs a swiss machine.

It seems like Tornos could match a B&S screw machine, but programing rather than making cams.
Michael was just in town this week installing a single spindle model with a bar feed and chip exit conveyer.
If you order one say Buck recommended, and Michael will get an ataboy.
*But if I won the lotto I would want a new top quality manual machine.
I asked him if my friends from PM could get a price break and he said He would ask.
 
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Could a Capto spindle become available for the M300/M200? to remove the need for that side stop attachment.

Nope.

BT30 is a really solid all-around performer. It has more rigidity than comparably sized HSK, it performs well at the maximum RPMs a mass-scale production machine spindle will ever be asked to run, the tooling is readily available across the world at reasonable prices, and the flange is ripe for adaptations such as Brother does for the turning tools in the M series. Brother experimented with both HSK40 and BT40; the experience and customer feedback drove them to pick BT30 and optimize the hell out of everything they do around it, which is exactly what they have done.

I often get questions along the lines of "Why doesn't Brother just do X, Y, and Z? This would be the perfect machine!" The problem with that is that a huge chunk of what people like about Speedios is the crazy high reliability, and you get a company like Brother (or Toyota) into that position by having the ability to say NO to a lot of engineering concepts or market trends. Brother is all about slow, methodical, relentless iteration.

There are other ways to run companies! But as they say, there are no good or bad decisions, only tradeoffs.

Kern got a call from Rolex to be able to do Guilloché in the Pyramid Nano, so Kern engineered a fixed Erowa mount behind the milling spindle just for them. I cannot imagine what that had to cost; the tradeoff here is that you can get engineering concepts implemented with a high level of competency, but the price becomes something only Rolex can afford.

Or you can be Haas, who seems to release weird/wacky mash-ups of their parts bin regularly at rock bottom prices. None of these abortions ever work very well, and there are plenty of YouTube videos of customers wanting to wring Gene Haas's neck for building them the "Optimal" machine... that utterly does not work.

Never say never with Brother. Every machine they build has a volume customer asking for it; the M series started with Toyota, Honda, and Kawasaki asking for something to efficiently process alternator housing castings. 10 years later, the M series is on Gen 4 and are rapidly taking market share in medical implant production. Brother is taking all the feedback and will, in the very Japanese way, deeply think through where to focus engineering resources based on market demand and feedback.
 
Could a Capto spindle become available for the M300/M200? to remove the need for that side stop attachment.
Even if turning is a small portion of what this machine is used for it would have other benefits as well such as higher drawbar force.
I remember a mention of how Brother once offered a spindle choice of HSK 40E and it was plagued with problems, Maybe they are afraid of making a similar mistake again.
I think the way the ATCs work on the Brothers and Fanucs, lower drawbar force is a requirement.

When the spindle moves all the way up, it releases the drawbar. When it moves down, it engages it. Part of what makes it so reliable and also so fast. Not sure if such a mechanism would work on high force drawbars like HSK and Capto.
 
But as they say Mandrake, there are no good or bad decisions, only tradeoffs.
Nothing specific to comment except thank you for your detailed posts like this. Trade-offs were my world. The strategy with customer presentations was to show them the options considered, why each was eliminated and how we got to the final answer. Different industry than machine tools but, same challenges.
 
The Xd2 machines, and the M300 - have significantly higher drawbar force than previous machines. Brother doesn’t give a figure, but the docs call out a 40% increase. That also upped the pull stud retention balls to 6 (from 5).

From what I have seen, that puts Big+ Brothers at about 900lb of drawbar now.
 
The Xd2 machines, and the M300 - have significantly higher drawbar force than previous machines. Brother doesn’t give a figure, but the docs call out a 40% increase. That also upped the pull stud retention balls to 6 (from 5).

From what I have seen, that puts Big+ Brothers at about 900lb of drawbar now.
Do they sell special high-strength pull-studs?
 
Do they sell special high-strength pull-studs?

No, but I haven't seen a pull-stud snap due to a crash in years now. Everyone also has upgraded to higher strength studs (Maritool, J&M, etc).

Drawbar force has less to do with retaining tools under crash conditions, and more about rigidity.
 
Well, if I had lottery money, big lottery money, I'd be tempted to get a sizable shop space, and buy half a dozen or more similar machines from different MTBs and do a Project Farm comparison. Then sell all but the best, and do it again with another category of machines.
I really like this.
I would start out with wire EDM's in section 1 and give them all shitty long keyways to cut. See how well the auto thread works on them. And the ACTUAL mm cubed per minute it works out to.
And on the side in section 2 have a few small HMC's plugging away on some milling that's filling up the machines with chips. Same cutters/prog etc etc and see when/if anything fails first, be it even chip conveyors.

Then once those two are done move to Lathe punishment in section1 and VMC's in section 2.
and so on and so on.
 
Let's say you hit the number and could put one or two really nice machines in a home shop for your own projects. What do you get?

Hard Limits are:
- Size: Nothing too big, say roughly Haas Mini-Mill size give or take a bit
- Power: Garage will have 100A now, 200A in about a year or as soon as I can get the main panel upgraded to 400A (parts are badly backlogged right now)
- Age/etc.: preferably new or relatively new/available with good parts/tech support

In terms of cost, I'd be curious what people would do for, say, under $50K, $100K, and "no limits." Assume this is for core machine only, no tooling, shop will have air, etc.

My biggest priorities are very high flexibility, ease of reconfigurability, and fast setups since >95% of my parts are first article prototypes. Typically fit in a cigar box, made in 6061 or acetal, 3-axis with 1-3 setups and everyday tolerances. My current mill is a Tormach 1100 and it's been very adequate but I'm very limited on spindle speed/rigidity with the 6K R8 spindle. I'd really like a full proper probe/toolsetter setup. I also really favor setups that run well on mist/air/MQL-type setups because managing/disposing gallons of used flood coolant is a huge PITA for me.

Right now the leading contenders I'm thinking of are things like the Syil X5, something Haas like a super-mini or compact mill, or the Datron Neo. The Syil seems like a lot more machine for the price of a new Tormach. Haas feels like the price escalates fast with options compared to the other machines, and the compact mill seems more specialized for small workpieces versus just being a smaller footprint. The Datron meanwhile seems like a very purpose-built prototyping machine, but also very narrowly specialized in terms of tooling, workpiece size and materials, and I am guessing is $150K+. Maybe for the same price there are better ways to spend it.

Curious to hear where the real experts in here would go with this.
Buy/build a killdozer........ lol
 








 
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