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Xometry Prices

Dude, you are hyping this group up to be much more elite than it actually is.
Not hyping it up at all
We’ve been in the trusted partner network for about a month. Did a virtual tour and audit at the beginning of the year. Had an in-person audit from Xom a couple weeks ago. They have several customers that won’t send you work without visiting your facility first.
Not anymore than you did here…….
It’s pretty safe to assume they have been onsite with nate several times as well.

It’s great that you are having success with Xom, but I think you are getting excited and over speculating a LOT.
Getting excited and over speculating? You have zero idea where I am at with Xometry or my relationship, my success besides the minimal I have shared here.
 
The thing is is that they are a huge resource to the buyer. Where I work, the process is that the engineer releases a part to manufacturing. There we have a guy who looks at wether the part fits our in house machine shop's capabilities, as well as if he has the manpower to make it in the time allotted. In that case he buys the material processes the job and releases it out to the shop floor.

If it doesn't meet those criteria, he turns to his old boy network of friends/buddies, or other local shops deemed qualified, sends them the drawing to be quoted, and waits a week or two for the quotes to come back.

Then typically the lead time will almost always be standard 12 to 16 weeks unless we pay for expedite. These days his desk is pretty backed up and it can also take about 8 weeks for him to actually get to our drawings so 8 to process 2 to get quotes 16 to get parts.

We are in the custom machine building business, so a lot of our stuff is very low quantity and can vary in size shape features etc. It doesn't lend itself nicely to a lot of production shops and most people don't like taking our work. So sites like Xometry who have figured out how to quickly process prototype work or of huge value to us.

Lately more and more engineers are cutting our in house guy out of the process. They upload the part to Xometry, select the lead time they want to deal with and have a quote within seconds. If the design changes it's no sweat to get a new quote. Sometimes when we're not sure how much it will cost to add a feature to the design we just upload it in several different formats and pick the most economical solution. In the old boy network asking for multiple quotes, changing your quote, changing quantities and evaluating options is a good way to burn out vendors and wind up not getting quotes. With Xometry this is not an issue.

I realize how bad this must be for the individual machine shops, but until the little guys have the ability to do automated quoting and form alliances with other shops, such that I can upload a part and know it is within your capabilities and can be made in reasonable amount of time, I can't see how a lot of places will be able to compete.

Someone else mentioned how Xometry is just a middleman but the reality is the value that they provide is a whole lot more than just a typical middleman.

Some shops have done what they have, Protolabs comes to mind, but they're all doing it on a scale that is not available to the local garage machine shop. Perhaps with AI coming onto the horizon maybe someone will license a quoting engine that small shops can run on their own websites. The ability to drag, click, and get price/lead time is an enormous value to the end customer.
I find your post a mixture of comical and disturbing. You described what I thought machine shops were, and am finding out more and more, are not.

Most of my customers do exactly what you said, drag, click, and get a price/lead time. It isn’t instant, unless they drag, click, and call me. Several, including one local machinery builder who builds everything from simple pick and place, to massive cells, will sometimes send me several designs, or call and ask about the best way to manufacture something.

That’s what machine shops DO!

One of my friends brought over a part a place like Xometry made, I can’t remember the name of it, but I haven’t seen it posted here yet. Short lead time complex part. He asked me how much I would charge to make it, no drawings, just look at the part. I said $500-$600 a part. He said they made it for $80. Except they screwed it up 6 times, and charged them for each screw up. So $480. They also blew the 1 week lead time, because each part was 1 week. It took 6 weeks to get a good part. I said bring it over next time and I’ll make it for you, he said, nope, won’t do that to you. Purchasing will want it made for $80 and 1 week lead time.

It sucks for you that you have a purchasing moron blocking access to good shops. I regularly work with customers to find the best quantity/price, lead time arrangement, that’s what machine shops DO!

I would love to share a dozen stories about how you guys are missing out, but if it works for you, who am I to say otherwise.
 
Not hyping it up at all

Getting excited and over speculating? You have zero idea where I am at with Xometry or my relationship, my success besides the minimal I have shared here.

You know what? Sure.

I made some accusations, but I am editing it out now. Some of the things you have said seem inaccurate based on my experience with Xom as a pretty invested partner. But who knows? Maybe you have it sorted way better than the rest of us. Best of luck to you.
 
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You know what? Sure.

I made some accusations, but I am editing it out now. Some of the things you have said seem inaccurate based on my experience with Xom as a pretty invested partner. But who knows? Maybe you have it sorted way better than the rest of us. Best of luck to you.
What do you find inaccurate? I have found everyone seems to have a different experience with Xometry.
 
I don’t list my equipment, I feel to an extent that may deter customers, engineers, purchasers that “think” they know capabilities off a list of shop equipment.

It’s actually quite shocking how many engineers, purchasers, whatever you want to call them, have very little knowledge of the machining aspect of what they are having quoted.

Agreed. I wasn’t calling you out on listing machines, I just never understood the reasoning behind that. It’s lose/lose. Your competition knows your equipment, potential customers make their own judgements (customers who barely know what they want, let alone what machines are capable of making it).
 
😂 Right………I don’t believe the hours it took in the CNC one bit, but my point was an “outsider” can’t determine one’s capabilities, clearly shown in this video. I know plenty of guys that can accomplish this type of work with full manual equipment, fairly and I’m using fairly very loosely, efficiently.

Furthermore……….the tier, not many were invited to, the Trusted Network Group, assuming you got the same invitational call I did, explaining the group. It’s exactly what it’s called, Trusted, on top of the “top
tier” customers we’ll “cater” to, we have been Trusted by Xometry across the board, Trusted to provide feedback, Trusted to communicate, Trusted to accomplish the jobs we accept, Trusted to deliver on time, Trusted we will provide top quality parts. Now I’m going to group the Trusted term into knowing our shops and own capabilities that we don’t need an “outsider” to come help determine that. We have proven we can be Trusted.
To play devils advocate/thought experiment

If x walked into the youtubers manual shop and deemed them not worthy by a physical audit. Perhaps it’s because they know that he would not be able to make $20/h in his shop for that job, however capable of making the job, and not qualify the shop for the work simply to avoid people saying it only pays $20\h in forums???

Not on x. Never will be due to my location. But food for though none the less.

Personally it looks like a company that’s used the shine of USA made to start out and draw in customers and is now extensively building out its offshore network to capitalize on their market penetration.

Regardless. We (people who make anything that can then be shipped) are in a global market more and more every day weather you like it or not and adaptation needs to be considered moving forward.
Plumbers have a captive audience…. And I bet it’s just as easy to start a plumbing outfit as financing your next vmc… so there’s that option.

Personally I’m sticking to my CNC’s for now.
 
Dude, you are hyping this group up to be much more elite than it actually is.

We’ve been in the trusted partner network for about a month. Did a virtual tour and audit at the beginning of the year. Had an in-person audit from Xom a couple weeks ago. They have several customers that won’t send you work without visiting your facility first.

It’s pretty safe to assume they have been onsite with nate several times as well.

It’s great that you are having success with Xom, but I think you are getting excited and over speculating a LOT.
Xometry has spent more time in my facility, and provided us with much more help then any other customer I have, including customers that are less than 2 miles away from my facility. In turn we provide them with the best customer service we possibly can.
 
What I'm curious to know is who is accepting all these below material+OP cost jobs??

Many of the ones I see have ITAR requirements so its not going to low cost countries and they must clearly have a healthy number of shops picking these up or they'd either be offering a lot more or have gone out of business already. I can't imagine Xometry would last very long if they had to keep asking their customers for more money.

I saw one just yesterday that was most egregious. It was listed as "expedited job" so it had a 2 day lead time for 5 different Swiss cheese parts out of 17-4 H1150 with black oxide, and aluminum with anodize. They required ITAR, FAIR, and certs. Of course the prints had silly tolerances and off angle features that would be a pain to make any other way than on a 5 axis. All this for a whopping $681....

The real shocker was seeing it disappear in the 10mins I was gawking at it, so someone took it...

I don't see how even a 0 overhead garage shop with a debt free 5 axis and the skills to program complex parts quickly could even make money with that job. Is Xometry just full of ignorant shops working for less than free or am I actually so bad at this that I can't make money on such a job?
 
What I'm curious to know is who is accepting all these below material+OP cost jobs??

Many of the ones I see have ITAR requirements so its not going to low cost countries and they must clearly have a healthy number of shops picking these up or they'd either be offering a lot more or have gone out of business already. I can't imagine Xometry would last very long if they had to keep asking their customers for more money.

I saw one just yesterday that was most egregious. It was listed as "expedited job" so it had a 2 day lead time for 5 different Swiss cheese parts out of 17-4 H1150 with black oxide, and aluminum with anodize. They required ITAR, FAIR, and certs. Of course the prints had silly tolerances and off angle features that would be a pain to make any other way than on a 5 axis. All this for a whopping $681....

The real shocker was seeing it disappear in the 10mins I was gawking at it, so someone took it...

I don't see how even a 0 overhead garage shop with a debt free 5 axis and the skills to program complex parts quickly could even make money with that job. Is Xometry just full of ignorant shops working for less than free or am I actually so bad at this that I can't make money on such a job?
No, the person who took the job was paid 10 times what you were offered.
 

I don't see how even a 0 overhead garage shop with a debt free 5 axis and the skills to program complex parts quickly could even make money with that job. Is Xometry just full of ignorant shops working for less than free or am I actually so bad at this that I can't make money on such a job?
almost every skilled trade person has some magical abilities on a very niche part or project. You are not bad, someone else might be really good at that style/shape. Give them an item similar to your favorite to make- they will be wondering how it could be done for near nothing.

Their pricing algorithm is constantly adapting to give a price they are pretty sure a shop will accept the work.
 
No, the person who took the job was paid 10 times what you were offered.
Or 5 times, or whatever.

This is what I keep complaining about. Used to be the initial offer price had some basis in reality, even if most jobs were comically low value. It was a lot easier for somebody to determine which jobs made sense to quote. Now the initial offer price means absolutely nothing for 99% of jobs.

It's turned into an expectation that every single job will get manually quoted by several partners, so instead of getting relatively quick feedback when we manually quote, it just goes into the queue on their end, where they will wait for some more bids, so they can pick the lowest price.

A year ago I didn't feel like we were competing as directly with all the other partners to come up with a low price. As long as Xom made some margin - we were winning the jobs. Now we are feeling the squeeze to get more margin, and it's making things a lot tougher for those of us who got used to relying on the board for work that was actually profitable.
 
Or 5 times, or whatever.

Is that true though without me seeing it?

I've given feedback on jobs before that come back as "updated pricing" with my quoted price, even show up as purple on the board instead of white, like an exclusive, but it disappeared before I could accept it. I called Xometry about it and they said another partner accepted it first so even though they went with my pricing, they left it open for everyone at that price.
 
It's almost like their "AI" automated quoting engine doesn't work. Spit out a price, hope someone takes it, quietly make up the difference when someone doesn't. I wonder if the investors know that.
 
No, the person who took the job was paid 10 times what you were offered.
Is that true though without me seeing it?

I've given feedback on jobs before that come back as "updated pricing" with my quoted price, even show up as purple on the board instead of white, like an exclusive, but it disappeared before I could accept it. I called Xometry about it and they said another partner accepted it first so even though they went with my pricing, they left it open for everyone at that price.

In my experience, a Partner left realistic feedback and while the job still sits on the board, a Xometry rep is working the customer and interested Partner in negotiating a feasible price.

Or the job falls off and no one accepted it.

Or 5 times, or whatever.

This is what I keep complaining about. Used to be the initial offer price had some basis in reality, even if most jobs were comically low value. It was a lot easier for somebody to determine which jobs made sense to quote. Now the initial offer price means absolutely nothing for 99% of jobs.

It's turned into an expectation that every single job will get manually quoted by several partners, so instead of getting relatively quick feedback when we manually quote, it just goes into the queue on their end, where they will wait for some more bids, so they can pick the lowest price.

A year ago I didn't feel like we were competing as directly with all the other partners to come up with a low price. As long as Xom made some margin - we were winning the jobs. Now we are feeling the squeeze to get more margin, and it's making things a lot tougher for those of us who got used to relying on the board for work that was actually profitable.
When I started years ago, 7ish years ago, me and buddy would compare prices on the board and occasionally there would be huge discrepancies, we questioned it many times and were never given a straight forward answer.
 
When I started years ago, 7ish years ago, me and buddy would compare prices on the board and occasionally there would be huge discrepancies, we questioned it many times and were never given a straight forward answer.

I think the rules for how and why this happens keep changing, so they are a bit vague about it. It ties back into this thing that Finegrain pointed out; Xom actively promotes a fantasy that if you do enough shit-tier work for them, you will get bumped up into a better class of offers.

That fantasy is not my experience at all. We have built some great (and profitable) relationships over there. There have been some great jobs sourced off the board, and from direct Xom RFQ's. However, despite having all of the tiers and certs possible, from what I can tell, we are still subject to the same job board shenanigans as the garage shop legion.
 
From my understanding the Trusted Network tier hasn't fully been rolled out yet? .
I am certainly not an authority on the inner workings at Xometry, but that is my understanding as well.

I was mistaken, I do see them and have been seeing them, I guess I didn't associate the note verbiage on the job to the Trusted Network.....

I think the rules for how and why this happens keep changing, so they are a bit vague about it. It ties back into this thing that Finegrain pointed out; Xom actively promotes a fantasy that if you do enough shit-tier work for them, you will get bumped up into a better class of offers.
I believe originally that was the plan they laid out when the tiers were formed, they had a road map, its in one of the Partner Onboarding Guides, but from what I've heard from many is you actually have to be invited to tier up now. So there is no guarantee if you complete X and do Y you will.
That fantasy is not my experience at all. We have built some great (and profitable) relationships over there. There have been some great jobs sourced off the board, and from direct Xom RFQ's. However, despite having all of the tiers and certs possible, from what I can tell, we are still subject to the same job board shenanigans as the garage shop legion.
I hear you here, I feel the same. I frequently see the jobs that are priced way off. I question how, who, is it something within the automated quoted that was missed or an individual quoting that just has no idea.

I have used their online quoting a few times, I have compared using it on the site and within the add in to SolidWorks and the pricing for the same exact part in most cases are different, I've even checked part pricing days apart and the pricing changes.

I've had repeat jobs that have came back for half the price, I have reached out and they have worked with me on them, and have said, the customer used the online system and it slipped by without notice. The automated quoting is never going to be perfect. I haven't personally used Paperless Parts, but I've heard the same thing from a few, it can be hit or miss.
 
I had a job about 6 months ago, Qty: 1, 6061 tube stock material, it was 10.00"Ø with .500" wall thickness, material was $350. About a month later, repeat job, awesome! Go to order material, shoot the same sales rep an email, with a simple - 'Hey, can I get another one of these cut'. Phone rings a few minutes later, sales rep, called to inform me the price has increased, to $1300!

I called around pricing ranged from $1100-2200 depending on supplier. No automated quoting software is going to catch that.

Material pricing alone varies so much across the country, I find it very shocking to see pricing for some material in other states, in a lot of cases I am getting it for about 50% locally. This became a huge problem for me when Xometry was forcing Xometry Supplies Material on us, I fought it every step, every job, I think out of the 20-50 quotes I received from Xometry Supplies maybe 3 were within 20% of my local suppliers pricing, typically they were double, and in some cases 3x's the price and lead times were typically 7-9 days longer than it was for me to get locally.
 
A year ago I didn't feel like we were competing as directly with all the other partners to come up with a low price. As long as Xom made some margin - we were winning the jobs. Now we are feeling the squeeze to get more margin, and it's making things a lot tougher for those of us who got used to relying on the board for work that was actually profitable.

They lose money every year, and the interest-free loan party is over, so I suspect they do need more margin to survive. Their existing margin was negative when operating expenses are taken into account. Somehow they need to figure out how to make ends meet. They are carrying $300 million in debt, that is no doubt going to be refinance higher than they are currently paying. They're going to have to show the lenders they are likely to get paid to get reasonable rates.
 








 
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