What's new
What's new

Yet another nightmare with the fadal..

Before I get into diagnosing spindle drive...

By yesterday evening the spindle would only turn on for a few seconds and won't orientate for a tool change. After running through the troubleshooting guide, that leads back to the spindle hall effect sensor.

In DI DS mode, no change from 00 to 01 for spindle orientate when turning the spindle by hand.

When the sensor is unplugged, the voltage and signal wire both have a touch under 5vdc. When it is plugged in, the signal voltage doesn't drop much but the voltage wire drops to 3.6vdc!

I did the same test on one of the tool change swing arm hall effect sensors and the voltage when plugged in was lower, but not nearly 3.6vdc.

I made some jumper wires to connect the tool change hall effect sensor to the spindle hall effect sensor plug. Basically tricking the control to think it was reading the spindle sensor when it was actually reading the tool change sensor. When moving the swing arm by hand in DI DS mode, the spindle orientate showed a signal. This tells me the problem is not the wiring from the hall effect to the control card or the card itself.

I then swapped a tool change hall effect sensor with the spindle hall effect sensor. No dice. In DI DS, it did not show a reading change when rotating the spindle.

SO my two questions:

1.) Are these two hall effect sensors interchangeable? They look to be the same from the outside, but I've seen crazier shit from visually identical 3 wire components.

2.) What does the spindle hall effect sensor pick up on? I noticed on the tool change swing arm, it looks like a magnet or dowel pin is pressed into the arm. On the spindle "plate" I see nothing similar. Just the slight notch on the side. Maybe this notch is where it picks up from?

3.) When rotating the spindle by hand in DI DS mode, should the spindle orientation show 00 and project a 01 when the hall effect has lined up with whatever in the hell its supposed to read?


I know Bob has had his hands dirty on these hall effects before. Hopefully I can receive some valuable information!

Thanks,
Andrew
 
I've only had to do a hall effect sensor ONCE, and it was actually recently. I still haven't put
the sheet metal back on... They should all be interchangeable. The problem is the wire colors and
what not, and then there are 2 wire and 3 wire...

As for the pickup on the spindle. There is a magnet epoxied into the spindle pulley. Its 180 degrees
from the detent, its right out on the edge, and its not easy to see.. On the 2 machines I just checked
(the sheet metal was already off, or I should say, never put back on), there are 3 balance holes on the
spindle pulley, opposite the detent, its going to be just outside of those, its hard to see, I'd say
its bigger than 3/16 and smaller than a 1/4". I wouldn't be surprised if it was invisible on a pulley
that was painted well... The balance holes on these are about 3/8", and about 1/2" in from the edge of
the pulley.

Check the clearance from the sensor to the pulley. Both machines I have the metal off of are more than
6 thou, but less than 8... And I am Quite Proud of myself for having found a set of feeler gages, since
there were none in the drawer labeled "feeler gages".
 
SOOO after reading various threads, there is, in fact, supposed to the some type of magnet that the spindle hall effect picks up on. I do not see anything like this. I see a round plate with 3 threaded holes spaced 120 degrees apart. Probably 1/4 -20 or 5/16-18 in size. These holes do not line up on the same "sweep" that the hall effect resides at.

The round plate has a small relief on the wall in a half moon shape. Part of the relief falls under the sensor when rotated around. I'm beginning to think I am possible missing something... Like the magnet has went missing. However, before removing the hall effect sensor, the gap between it and the round plate was only about .035". That has me stumped at the thought something has came out with a gap that small. I'm so damn confused! Pictures or a visual description would be great right about now. The parts manual diagram is of no help either..
 
I've only had to do a hall effect sensor ONCE, and it was actually recently. I still haven't put
the sheet metal back on... They should all be interchangeable. The problem is the wire colors and
what not, and then there are 2 wire and 3 wire...

As for the pickup on the spindle. There is a magnet epoxied into the spindle pulley. Its 180 degrees
from the detent, its right out on the edge, and its not easy to see.. On the 2 machines I just checked
(the sheet metal was already off, or I should say, never put back on), there are 3 balance holes on the
spindle pulley, opposite the detent, its going to be just outside of those, its hard to see, I'd say
its bigger than 3/16 and smaller than a 1/4". I wouldn't be surprised if it was invisible on a pulley
that was painted well... The balance holes on these are about 3/8", and about 1/2" in from the edge of
the pulley.

Check the clearance from the sensor to the pulley. Both machines I have the metal off of are more than
6 thou, but less than 8... And I am Quite Proud of myself for having found a set of feeler gages, since
there were none in the drawer labeled "feeler gages".

You're a savior. I'm going out to check right now. I haven't had my spindle or tool change covers on in the last 5 years. Two many problems to keep taking them on and off haha.
 
Update:


I found the pesky magnet right where Bob said it would be. By feel, it seems to sit about .005" below the face of the pulley. There was a fair amount of belt particles residing on top on the pulley that had turned into a thick layer of nasty stuff. I cleaned the area and reduced the gap to .01" with no dice from the original sensor. I then swapped sensors like before and BOOM I finally got a signal. Before when I tried, I had a larger gap and the magnet surface was not clean. It looks like I will have a new hall effect sensor on the way. Once it's here and installed, I'll try to run the machine a bit and come back for an update. Hopefully no spindle drive issues!

I sincerely want to thank you for your involvement on this forum, Bob. To some or maybe even yourself, it may not seem like much, but it truly means a lot to me. From picking up my fadal at 21 years of age, not knowing a damn thing about how the mechanics and electronics worked, Bob was the first to lend a hand and help me diagnose a keyboard failure followed by many other issues over the last 7 years or so. I would like to think I've learned a fair amount since then, but little issues like this hall effect sensor seems to always put my right back in my place.
 
I just went through a similar problem with my Fadal. The machine would fault when trying to orientate during a tool change. I had my suspicions, as I previously saw some wear on the spindle pulley where the orientate bearing rides along. Fortunately, I had bought a new pulley sometime ago on Ebay.

Anyway, I replaced the pulley and went to try a tool change, this time, instead of moving back a forth, searching for a signal. It would just spin and spin. It turns out that the new pulley did not have the magnet install. I found a magnet (there was one the other end of my carbide scribe :) and super glued it into place.

It worked for all the tools, but, I seemed to have a problem when orienting the spindle with a 5" face mill. Once in a while it would bounce back and forth a bit before locking. But, it did not go into an alarm. I don't know if the weight of the tool was the cause, but, this was remedied by changing the spindle orientate value in the parameters. I lowered it from a 7 to a 6 (in my case) and now all is well. One more bit of info, the connector for the hall sensor was really gunked up. the contacts where showing signs corrosion, which could have caused some resistance issues. I cleaned it out with some electronics contact cleaner for some insurance.

pete
 








 
Back
Top