ACIERA F3 - getting ready to move one ....

[marcsO]

Hi all, I normally post on the Schaublin forum as own a 135 which was documented through a re-furbish and modification to the troublesome Variator system which now has no oil feed and is free from leaks .

New to this forum as have just acquired an Aciera F3 and are planning the move it from its current home to my workshop.

I believe the machine is the early version but appears in good condition, no fancy accessories but has the tilt and angle table, normal head and horizontal arm too but alas no 'nice' extras like the high speed head, slotting head etc.

I have had a quote to move it and was somewhat surprised at the cost so wanted to ask if the F3 can be easily lightened by removing parts without causing large dismantling projects?

I know the head unit can be removed, table, tray, doors and motor fairly easily, what else could be removed and anyone know the weight of the machine less the items mentioned - think its circa 500kg fully loaded?

Appreciate any advise and help. The move requires a lift over a door threshold and down two small steps, a concrete path round the house to the front drive where a van can be parked. I have a 5T toe jack and a 500kg Slingsby (which lifts the Schaublin 135 with ease BTW) straps and a block and tackle - any other items ideally suggested?

Marc

 

[millwrong]

It's been quite some time since I moved my F3 into my basement however as you state selective dismantling
made quick work of the job. Disassembly and reassembly was the main key to the job. I remember it as simple
and straightforward. It sounds like you're good to go!

 

[Peter from Holland]

It is such a light machine I would not bother taking off any thing beside the head and table perhaps
If it is on a pallet the floor can be concured with a pallet truck obvious
But if you put it on a old karpet you can probbably drag it over the concrete if it is smooth Perhaps placed on a piece of plywood A piece of thin plywood as a ramp for the treshold would do Or just wiggle it
The stepps are a bigger problem without knowing the exact situation Is there a place above to attach a hoist ???

Peter

 

[marcsO]

OK seems with some planning and a few younger family friends I can set about the move.

Very excited as its been a while since I started looking for a mill, originally a Schaublin 13 was the number 1 choice, mainly as have the Schaublin lathe but a few in the know suggested that it might not be the best choice for various reasons, then there was the Deckel FP1, plenty in Europe, almost none in the UK and the thought of buying unseen and then the expense of shipping just put an end to that.

The Aceira and the Sixis were the two other suggested machines and after some digging and looking this machine came up. Hoping it's all good, little use for a long while, stored in a home workshop so dry, original paint is good, motor been swapped out for a VFD and single phase motor which I may change back if the original motor is available. Basic accessories and collets etc so will over time keep an eye out for a few items, the slotting head is my first choice, then maybe the high speed head - who knows, time will tell.

Another small project following the Schaublin 135 is nice to have, I suspect this wont be as big a job, hoping anyway

Thanks for the input, especially Peter who must be on every forum here, brilliant stuff and owe you a big beer one day.....

Marc

 

[Peter from Holland]

Aciera F3 alongside a Schaublin 135 Mmmmmmmm
A Aciera F4 or F5 would have been a better choice IMHO
A Aciera F3 is a budget machine IMHO
Peter

 

[marcsO]

I don't need an expensive or grand mill, the F3 is a decent all rounder and less temperamental than the 13 and the Deckel is just simply silly money - period.

 

[lucky7]

If you want to avoid a Deckel, I’d second Peter’s suggestion of a Aciera F4. Have a little time on one. Delightful mill. Basically same floor space as an F3. Yeah, I know I’m piling on, spending someone else’s cash…

 

[marcsO]

Here next week ......

 

[neanderthal mach]

The companies I worked for were always too cheap to send me to a proper riggers course, so it was learn as you go. Fortunately I also learned a lot from using some basic logic about seeing others mistakes and never made any serious one's myself. I never moved machine tools on the job, but about anything in an open pit mine from a few hundred pounds to 50+ tons, as well as some pretty high value items. Mistakes and damage could always be traced back to people either not planning the job out well enough, or getting over confident and were trying to go too fast. And the less experience you have, the more planning and time is required. Think through everything that could even remotely occur and change whatever you have to so it can't happen. Even a scratch in the paint is to me a failure of my own and no one else. Fast yet damaged is worthless to everyone. And however quickly it got done is never remembered, that damage always is though.

I moved my own 3/4 sized BP mill over 3,000 miles by truck, disassembled it into it's major components and then into my home shop without any issues using little more than a bit of muscle, a few construction grade 2"x4"s for leverage and a hand truck for the last 60 feet. If it were me, I'd also pull the table hand cranks and certainly that knee crank. If you do have to actually lift anything and are using fiber straps, always, always, always pad any edges on the back side of the sling first. Strips of old carpet or even doubled up cardboard will work even with multi ton loads. I've seen those fiber straps rated for 20 plus tons get sliced through in seconds at well under half there rated capacity on semi sharp edges you wouldn't think could happen. I also drop the maximum weight rating by half on anything that's manufactured off shore like engine hoists and those lifting straps. To me chains or steel cable slings are much more reliable and safer, but for anything like machine tool moves, they take a lot longer to set up and properly pad the parts from damage.

 

[Peter from Holland]

The companies I worked for were always too cheap to send me to a proper riggers course, so it was learn as you go. Fortunately I also learned a lot from using some basic logic about seeing others mistakes and never made any serious one's myself. I never moved machine tools on the job, but about anything in an open pit mine from a few hundred pounds to 50+ tons, as well as some pretty high value items. Mistakes and damage could always be traced back to people either not planning the job out well enough, or getting over confident and were trying to go too fast. And the less experience you have, the more planning and time is required. Think through everything that could even remotely occur and change whatever you have to so it can't happen. Even a scratch in the paint is to me a failure of my own and no one else. Fast yet damaged is worthless to everyone. And however quickly it got done is never remembered, that damage always is though.

I moved my own 3/4 sized BP mill over 3,000 miles by truck, disassembled it into it's major components and then into my home shop without any issues using little more than a bit of muscle, a few construction grade 2"x4"s for leverage and a hand truck for the last 60 feet. If it were me, I'd also pull the table hand cranks and certainly that knee crank. If you do have to actually lift anything and are using fiber straps, always, always, always pad any edges on the back side of the sling first. Strips of old carpet or even doubled up cardboard will work even with multi ton loads. I've seen those fiber straps rated for 20 plus tons get sliced through in seconds at well under half there rated capacity on semi sharp edges you wouldn't think could happen. I also drop the maximum weight rating by half on anything that's manufactured off shore like engine hoists and those lifting straps. To me chains or steel cable slings are much more reliable and safer, but for anything like machine tool moves, they take a lot longer to set up and properly pad the parts from damage.

Way overthinking IMHO Its just 400kg or so Chain or steel cable slings ??????? Tjesus

Peter

 

[neanderthal mach]

Overthinking it? Where did I say they had to be used. What I pointed out is they were a more reliable and safer method. Or would you like to argue they aren't. That's a point I made from a whole lot of years doing shit like this and depending on what the OP does or doesn't have available or can borrow. I've used 45 ton excavators to move less than 500 lbs simply because a crane or Hiab couldn't even get into where it had to go. So was that overthinking it as well?

 

[Peter from Holland]

In fact I would certainly say that steel wire and in some extend even chain is not any safer for loads we are discussing here As in a typical home shop or even proffesional shop The opposite
The fiber straps are perfect Light weight Easy to handle Do not damage the load that easy Cheap So not costly to replace Steel wire is clumsy to handle Good for a 50 ton load yes
I am also not to worried about semi sharp corners As long as the strap does not move under load
But I saw steel cable break once when they were turninh over a 12 ton mould and the wire ran across the edge Lukely the other end was hanging from a overhead crane and it was low to the ground

 

[marcsO]

Sadly due to travel/work circumstances I am not able to go ahead and buy this machine, I am happy to put any interested buyer in touch with the vendor if they fancy a nice clean F3.

Based in the South of England the vendor needs the machine moved in 2 weeks max due to a house move so ideally someone who can get to and arrange transport quickly.

Price is very very attractive.

 

[neanderthal mach]

In the mining industry we used to get monthly accident investigation reports for any serious injuries or deaths from our provincial work men's regulatory department. Those weren't specific to mining, but dealt with all job accidents province wide. Steel sling and chain accidents were rare compared to those fiber sling failures. And almost without exception, steel rigging components failed due to being overloaded and underestimating the weight. I've personally seen 1" diameter steel winch line sheared because it was incorrectly run over a sharp edge, and at no where near it's capacity. I've also seen the after effects of an operator using fiber slings on a 40+ ton load and destroying an almost brand new custom built multi axle $180k trailer using those fiber slings hung off the bucket teeth that were well rounded off, just not quite enough. Anyone here is free to assume what they want, but fiber and steel are most definitely not equal as far as durability, and I certainly don't know any professionals who would ever think so either.

Those fiber based slings do have there place and can work well, that's already well proven. But only if there being used with a bit of common sense. Obviously anything can be misused and destroyed. The OP's original post was asking for advise, I'd say I provided some basic information that probably most inexperienced people may not be aware of and no different than I'd do when actually training any new operator. 400 kgs is still more than enough to cut cheap light weight consumer level fiber slings if there being incorrectly used by those same inexperienced people.

 

[CarbideBob]

Sadly due to travel/work circumstances I am not able to go ahead and buy this machine,

Oh . that is bad news. Is the above 400-500kg correct?

 

[marcsO]

Yes about that, closer to 500kg as I understand.

 

[marcsO]

Back on now, will be going down to see the mill in a week and plan the disassembly and logistics on how to get it home.

Its around 500kg, fully loaded, and whilst that is 'light' compared to many machines not sure my back will be keen to lift it, I have had a back app so will be making sure everything is done so the lightest weight is lifted at any time.

The challenge with this move is the sellers location is in a workshop round the back of a house, lots of single steps up and down along the route and a narrow path down the side of the house and a few gates which narrow the route to around 700mm.

Plus side is the route is all paths of stone or concrete so solid underfoot.

Will post the process here for those interested.

 

[Erik]

Well, your F3 is the new version - and pretty as well...
So it should have ISO30 instead of W20... That's great.

 

[Peter from Holland]

So you bought it anyhow ?
Good luck with the move

Peter

 

[marcsO]

So today been down and started the process to remove heavy parts so that the machine might be more easily moved. Its in a really tight place and the main machine move is going to be a challenge for sure but for now its mine and happy that the journey has started.

Here are some random pictures taken of the machine after some items have been removed, the paint is all original and in very good condition as far as I can make out, time will tell however as is the case with all machinery.



No special accessories sadly but a tilting table so not the fixed version at least.
Will keep an eye out for accessories and please let me know if anyone knows of or hears about items being sold, consider high speed head, slotter and any of the table accessories.

Just spotted the machine light is 'original' hey thats a bonus

Its had the electronics removed and VFD added, not sure of the motor spec as its not the original so been changed out which is not too much of an issue but will check the HP and make sure its in range of the original motor spec.

Has a Mitutoya 3 axis DRO fitted with head unit, I'm not likely to keep this so if anyone might fancy this (need to check it all works first) theyn might be open to offers....

Price was good so if for any reason there is a mechanical failure I can sell the main parts which are all in lovely condition, hopefully it wont come to that as its a simple machine compared to the Schaublin 135 lathe I have - one motor (no coolant pump sadly too).

More to follow...