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Cnc mill average part size?
- Thread starter alan speyrer
- Start date
- Replies 48
- Views 3,145
Using Fusion isn't programming at the machine.
Programming at the machine isn't great.
michiganbuck
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
- Location
- Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
likely as big as the machine and tooling will fit.
Back in trade school, I was asked to grind a part at the top end of a steel pendulum. It was just perhaps 1/8" short of the maximum height of our manual surface grinder standing verticle. I know I may have been able to run it horizontally by tilting a V block but at the time did not think of that, it was so heavy a tilted V block may have not held on the mag chuck.
Back in trade school, I was asked to grind a part at the top end of a steel pendulum. It was just perhaps 1/8" short of the maximum height of our manual surface grinder standing verticle. I know I may have been able to run it horizontally by tilting a V block but at the time did not think of that, it was so heavy a tilted V block may have not held on the mag chuck.
DavidScott
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2012
- Location
- Washington
I programmed manually for the first year or so, 25 years ago, but I never did it at the machine, not even for the lathe. I think a pc is way better than a machine's control to program manually, let alone with Cad/Cam.
alan speyrer
Stainless
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Location
- Shallowater
well i hand write my lathe programs, then type them in the lathe control. it may not be fast, but i like to look at the part print while im hand writing the program.
CarbideBob
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2007
- Location
- Flushing/Flint, Michigan
A mill is not a lathe.
Unless you are just squaring up blocks or making base easy stuff you will want CAM.
Take a look at your lathe's CNMG-432 holder.
Typical program for me to do this end work is over 400-1000 lines of code and 8 to 12 tools. Want to hand edit this?
I do know one guy who still does it in notepad. He has canned "libraries" that he cuts and pastes. It is painful to watch.
Nice thing about CAM is that I can "tweak" the program, feedrates, stock per pass, adjust size, etc. and be up and running the new program in less than 5 minutes.
Lathes are so different and I totally understand hand programming these.
Much depends on what you are going to do with it.
Size is budget, room to fit and what the floor can hold. On that floor remember that in most cases it is machine weight plus weight of the lift truck.
I've also seen people buy machines that will not fit through the door. Big fun.
Arguably smaller machines are more accurate.
The truth and super sucky answer is that no one can tell you what will work best for you since we do not run your shop, know the parts, or know your future direction.
Have a friend with a 5 axis big enough to park your pickup truck on the table. Micron accurate and linear motors for super flying speed.
Neat but it would not work for me at all.
Bob...
Last edited:
alan speyrer
Stainless
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Location
- Shallowater
no p
no problem on space, front shop door is 12 feet wide 14 tall, shop walls are 16 tall, shop is 30 by 40, and im adding another 500 sq ft as we speak. i keep thinking about getting a Haas mini mill, or similar sized
cnc mill, just so i can get started and then see where things go.
thanks to all who commented on this thread.
no problem on space, front shop door is 12 feet wide 14 tall, shop walls are 16 tall, shop is 30 by 40, and im adding another 500 sq ft as we speak. i keep thinking about getting a Haas mini mill, or similar sized
cnc mill, just so i can get started and then see where things go.
thanks to all who commented on this thread.
13engines
Stainless
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2015
- Location
- Saint Paul, MN
As others have said, unless you're doing nothing but a rectangle with a hole or two in it, it's insanity, if not nearly impossible to write and type in milling programs manually. A very important reason is, unless you're charging 5-10 per hour for programming, you can never compete with someone effectively using CAM. Even if they're charging 10-20 times that.
In no more then a couple-few seconds, I can select a feature profile of nearly any complexity, and in one more click, have hundreds if not thousands of lines of X-Y-Z coordinates including their appropriate G code prefix, and every single line of code will be created without error. I challenge anyone to type in 50 lines without at least one error. And as we all know, single errors matter. A missing or misplaced period, A G0 where a G1 needs to be, or a - sign where it doesn't belong, can easily be either a ruined part or a very expensive crash.
One other thing... I'll be damned if half the G codes and fixed cycles are different moving from a lathe to a mill. One more wrench to throw in the works. Not so long ago I went from years of mill programming to lathe programming, even using the same brand control, and it was nearly straight back to Programming 101. Total newb all over again. I'm sure that goes both ways.
I see you're looking to get a Mini Mill. Maybe not a bad place to start. But seriously, don't kid yourself. Get some CAD/CAM starting on day one. You will need it eventually, and no time like the present.
But on the other hand.. what Comatose said does not sound like a bad way to go either.
In no more then a couple-few seconds, I can select a feature profile of nearly any complexity, and in one more click, have hundreds if not thousands of lines of X-Y-Z coordinates including their appropriate G code prefix, and every single line of code will be created without error. I challenge anyone to type in 50 lines without at least one error. And as we all know, single errors matter. A missing or misplaced period, A G0 where a G1 needs to be, or a - sign where it doesn't belong, can easily be either a ruined part or a very expensive crash.
One other thing... I'll be damned if half the G codes and fixed cycles are different moving from a lathe to a mill. One more wrench to throw in the works. Not so long ago I went from years of mill programming to lathe programming, even using the same brand control, and it was nearly straight back to Programming 101. Total newb all over again. I'm sure that goes both ways.
I see you're looking to get a Mini Mill. Maybe not a bad place to start. But seriously, don't kid yourself. Get some CAD/CAM starting on day one. You will need it eventually, and no time like the present.
But on the other hand.. what Comatose said does not sound like a bad way to go either.
mhajicek
Diamond
- Joined
- May 11, 2017
- Location
- Maple Grove, MN, USA
You will not program for milling competitively by hand these days, unless the work is stupid simple and in easy materials. All of my parts require dynamic milling and surfacing toolpaths. You can probably get away with fusion for a while, but you should be aware of it's shortcomings; there are plenty of threads here discussing them.
BT Fabrication
Titanium
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2019
- Location
- Ontario Canada
floor space, yep not terribly huge. Ive got about the same size, adding about 1000 sq ft as its the max i can fit in the area.
you could spend 35K on a mini mill, but buying things that the shop doesn't currently need is a good way to swim against the tides.
there is probably more money investing in a live tooling lathe or something else similar or just automating the current setup.
its all about ROI. Sure i can spend 500K on a 5th axis pallet pool system but my parts are only 3 axis milling that literally everyone does.
without a dedicated cad cam software in milling, you are fighting yourself right there also. which other then fusion can be a 8K plus investment as some companies won't deal with cloud based software ever.
you might be better off with a manual mill and see what happens from there if you need something milled flat etc.
and you can't forget rigging, shipping and tooling costs just to get started. $100+ per tool holder, and er collets pull studs can run in the ten thousand easily to tool it up.
Exactly!!!
M.B. Naegle
Diamond
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2011
- Location
- Conroe, TX USA
The usual rule of thumb is that you want a machine slightly larger than the largest part you ever expect to see. Not just most of your parts, but you want a machine to do 100% of your parts, and your parts are as big as your parts are.
One other aspect to consider however is how many machines do you expect to have and how quick do you want your turn-over to be? How many operators do you expect to have and how long or run times do you expect? You may find that you only need one big machine for the occasional part of such size, and then have two or three other smaller machines for the more common work. For sure take full advantage of your table size with multiple parts running on one machine, but floor space runs out real quick if you just buy big machines. If you can put two smaller mills on the floor where only one big mill would fit, you can be setting up one while the other is working. In other words, with the space you have, get as big of tables as necessary, while also trying to get as many spindles on your floor as possible.
One other aspect to consider however is how many machines do you expect to have and how quick do you want your turn-over to be? How many operators do you expect to have and how long or run times do you expect? You may find that you only need one big machine for the occasional part of such size, and then have two or three other smaller machines for the more common work. For sure take full advantage of your table size with multiple parts running on one machine, but floor space runs out real quick if you just buy big machines. If you can put two smaller mills on the floor where only one big mill would fit, you can be setting up one while the other is working. In other words, with the space you have, get as big of tables as necessary, while also trying to get as many spindles on your floor as possible.
alan speyrer
Stainless
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Location
- Shallowater
people make problems, thats why im a one man shop.
Then definitely, for sure, get a live tooled lathe instead. Mills take constant feeding and babying. Even when robot loaded.
alan speyrer
Stainless
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Location
- Shallowater
i have a small van norman manual mill, i am needing a larger mill, and i want a cnc mill, not sure if i buy a machining center, small haas mini mill, or large cnc bedmill. big cnc bed mill would work for me, but if i get production mill jobs, i dont want to be the "tool changer".
DavidScott
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2012
- Location
- Washington
A fast machining center would probably make the most $$$ an hour, on average.
mjk
Titanium
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Location
- Wilmington DE USA
Side mount changer, more tools,quicker tool changes
Full enclosure, benefits far out way any downside
Full enclosure, benefits far out way any downside
mhajicek
Diamond
- Joined
- May 11, 2017
- Location
- Maple Grove, MN, USA
Or have one running Op 1 while the other runs Op 2.
Go as big as your budget and facility can handle. (With-in reason). Big machine can make small parts too. Though with big machines & big parts comes the reality of having to handle those big parts. Got a forklift/hoist etc... Just buy a horizontal with a pallet pool and thank me later.
