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Dynamic (Grinding) Wheel Balancing Method using iPhone Vibration App and SHCS's

I am a little confused by your post. Are you talking about balancing spindles or adapaters? Do you think think most smaller (7") surface grinding adapters are balancing? I have not had the opportunity to personally canvas the industry, but my understanding is that most of the time balancing is not done on grinders similar in size to my Harig that takes 7 inch wheels.

IME balanceing helps irrespective of machine size, it helps more - has a lot more noticeable effect if there’s other defects on the machine (in my case worn spindle bearings) Since changeing the spindle bearings i have enough rigidity to overcome the unbalanced forces, but still if i want a great finish it helps to balance a bit.

J&S 540 and a lot of other similar grinders have wheels mounted on proper taper fitting adaptors, they have a dove tailed slot and 3 balance weights as std. A lot of the better smaller grinders do have balance weights - wheel adaptors despite only running 7" wheels.

A balancing spindle is just a spindle thats accurate you can sit the wheel + adaptor on an balance on parallel - knife edge balancing rails.
 
Would not be hard to make up a more convential wwheel flange with balance weights in it either, its just a slightly dovetailed grove, its makeing the weights thats the fiddly bit!
 
I have a Balantron 2011 right now
It is a electronic unbalance tester which activates a kind of diamond pointed chissel that knocks a bit of material from the stone itself at the right spot
So it balances the assembly of stone and spindle
The chissel is activated by a solenoid
Swiss made and for sale BTW

Peter from holland



DSC07644.jpg DSC07646.jpg DSC07649.jpg
 
I have a Balantron 2011 right now
It is a electronic unbalance tester which activates a kind of diamond pointed chissel that knocks a bit of material from the stone itself at the right spot
So it balances the assembly of stone and spindle
The chissel is activated by a solenoid
<Snip>
Peter from holland

Very clever. By the illustration in the photo of instructions you provided it is making a groove in the side (the same surface the blotter is on) of the stone? How well has this worked in practice?

Denis
 
IME balanceing helps irrespective of machine size, it helps more - has a lot more noticeable effect if there’s other defects on the machine (in my case worn spindle bearings) Since changeing the spindle bearings i have enough rigidity to overcome the unbalanced forces, but still if i want a great finish it helps to balance a bit.

J&S 540 and a lot of other similar grinders have wheels mounted on proper taper fitting adaptors, they have a dove tailed slot and 3 balance weights as std. A lot of the better smaller grinders do have balance weights - wheel adaptors despite only running 7" wheels.

A balancing spindle is just a spindle thats accurate you can sit the wheel + adaptor on an balance on parallel - knife edge balancing rails.

Any tips on doing this? Our grinder at work, (an early 80's Clausing Jacobsen) has a tapered spindle shaft, as well as the 3-weight moutning ring/nut. I'm not quite sure how to go about actually balancing it though. Play the "better or worse" game?
 
Obviously people balance wheels for a reason, but I don't fully understand why it works.

It seems to me that if you have an out of balance wheel, it makes the spindle and wheel wobble. Ok, so you dress the wheel while it's spinning, and any wobble is removed. It might still be out of balance, but you dynamically shaped the wheel to run true. So why does it still affect finish?
 
A balancing adaptor for a 7 inch or so grinder is rare enough that I've never seen one in the flesh. Wheels that small are rarely out enough to be a problem unless the machine is as limber as a wet noodle. This a solution to no problem. Fixing something that is not broken.
 
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Obviously people balance wheels for a reason, but I don't fully understand why it works.

It seems to me that if you have an out of balance wheel, it makes the spindle and wheel wobble. Ok, so you dress the wheel while it's spinning, and any wobble is removed. It might still be out of balance, but you dynamically shaped the wheel to run true. So why does it still affect finish?

I initially,when I started down the T+C Grinder balancing path, I was thinking the same thoughts. But, I think the answer lies in the somewhat more complex vibrations induced in the system than just a very simple and consistently reproduced bouncing of the wheel/spindle. There is, of course, the primary vibration frequency of the system that should be roughly equivalent to the RPM of the wheel. But in addition to that are the harmonics induced in the system much like a single pluck of a guitar string (or in this case revolution) causes harmonic vibrations as well as the primary vibration. That would be bad enough, but another problem is that the RPMs vary significantly with load on the wheel and motor. So if you dress under practically no load, and then start to grind, the RPMs change so the wheel is deflecting in a different pattern than it did when dressed and so what was the high spot on the wheel at the no-load RPM is no longer the high spot at a different RPM and all those small harmonic deflections are also no longer the same as they were.

If you wanted to be a super-purist, you have to balance the wheel initially in its highly unbalanced state, dress causing it to somewhat unbalanced again, re-balance and re-true. I think I actually did that without being conscious of it as I did balance, trued and then retested, balanced, and re-trued. I suppose, if you were attempting a very extreme and rather impractical degree of balance, you could go through many such iterations. (I can't wait to be flamed for discussing multiple iterations---don't bother)

Anyway, I know balancing works on my T+C grinder and I know it makes a very significant difference in surface finish on that machine. I think this RPM and harmonics issue is the reason you can't just dress the wheel true in a springy setup like a T+C grinder. In the case of the surface grinder, the machine is so relatively rigid and relatively massive that a simple dress on a wheel mounted in a non-balancing spindle gives very good results as it does on smaller machines like my Harig. I do not doubt that balancing smaller SG wheels might be helpful (at least one member reports balancing to cause improvement) and I believe it is common practice on larger machines with more massive wheels.

I'd be interested to hear other thoughts on this particularly if someone has actually used a strobe and/or other measuring equipment to see what is going on.

Denis
 
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A balancing adaptor for a 7 inch or so grinder is rare enough that I've never seen one in the flesh. Wheels that small are rarely out enough to be a problem unless the machine is as limber as a wet noodle. This a solution to no problem. Fixing something that is not broken.

Ours has that setup, and the last wheel i mounted has a noticeable vibration to it. I believe it's actually axial/face wobble that's causing it, so maybe dressing the sides of the wheel would help - if we had a dresser to do so with.

This grinder is particularly difficult to get a good finish with anyway. With the noticeable vibration from the wheel, the finish looks like crap, for a grinder that is...
 
<Snip> I believe it's actually axial/face wobble that's causing it, so maybe dressing the sides of the wheel would help - if we had a dresser to do so with.<Snip>

To provide a means of dressing the sides of the wheel, wouldn't just using a block of steel or a weldment, say, 1" by 3" and 3" tall with a 3/8" (assuming your diamond is a common 3/8" diameter mount) hole and setscrew in it provide a means of side-dressing the wheel? Most likely you would actually need to only dress from the face of the wheel in to maybe a 2.5" radius. Seems like such an accessory block should work. Just angle so that the diamond is facing 15 to 20 degrees off axis and in the direction of rotation much as you would angle the diamond for dressing the wheel face.

Incidentally, if you use a smartphone app like I did, by orienting the phones face parallel to the wheel axis and then at right angles you could get a decent idea of the direction of vibration as the app not only reads out in magnitude of vibration but also x,y direction relative to the phone face. In that way you might be able to tell whether it was primarily in line with the wheel axis as you might expect to see with wobble or more perpendicular to the axis as you might see in wheel imbalance or as might occur if the wheel were mounted not quite centered.

Denis
 
First I would find out why I had such runout. Is there foreign material under the flanges? Is all of both blotters intact? Then I would dress the sides parallel. If you grind to a shoulder you need it dressed anyway.
 
Absolutely. We just hardly ever use the thing, thus why we never bothered buying/making a dresser for it. We use the built-in dresser. Maybe on a slow day this would be something good to do.
 








 
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