Major Rusting Issues In Our Building All Of A Sudden??

[mhzinduction]

Hey guys, I'm hoping to pick your brains and see if you could think of what our issue could possibly be? We built a new shop about 2.5 years ago its a 4k sqft open cell insulated building its pretty much air tight. We had zero issues with rust in the building for about the first year and a half now it seems that everything in here is rusting. Even some aluminum is corroding and leaving a dust on the surface. We haven't changed anything since we moved in, the first year we had a warm humid summer and didn't have any issues. I thought maybe it was a humidity issue so we installed a dehumidifier and we are currently sitting between 30-35% in the building well below what rust starts at. We have a big ass fan mounted on the ceiling and its pretty much running all of the time. We bought an air monitoring system to check the quality of the air the best that we could and we dont see any issues there as well. Almost all of our tool holders are getting destroyed because of this. Gage pins that are stored away in their original case have some surface rust on them. Im afraid to buy anything new until we can figure out whats going on in here. Has anyone had an issue like this in the past that might be able to lend a hand or if you think you might know whats going on or a solution that would be amazing.

Also, I forgot to mention earlier the inside of the machines themselves aren't rusty. If I were to let them sit for awhile or take a vise off after being on for a few weeks or whatever there might be a little space you could see but the table and way covers and what not are not showing signs of rust like the items spread out around the shop.

Thanks so much!

 

[True North]

Are you using acid in any of your processes?

 

[kenton]

The flux from soldering stainless caused that in our shop one time. We don't solder stainless anymore.

Are you getting rusty finger prints? I have had something change in my body chemistry a couple of times that gave me acid hands. Fortunately it was only a couple months of rubber gloves. Some people just always have acid hands all the time. Maybe a new guy?

 

[mhzinduction]

We do not use any acids in the shop, and we are not using and flux or soldering anything in here. We have 1 5axis Mill 1 3Axis Mill and a CNC Lathe. I'm posting some pictures of what's kind of happening. I took a brand new parallel out of the paper wrapping and left it out and in just 2-3 days time it looks like this. We use DI water in our coolant tanks, I checked to see if it was getting higher but its reading 0 on the tester. So the DI tank is still good.

 

[machinistrrt]

I was going to suggest what Kenton said, possible change in diet of anyone?

 

[mhzinduction]

I wish it was just finger prints, that would make life much easier. I should have posted the pictures right away but as you can see its much worse than just finger prints.

 

[rklopp]

Is there something nasty coming through your slab floor? How about a floor drain that lost its trap seal? Is there a reason the metal parts get cold overnight, below the dew point, and then when you kick the heat on in the morning, moisture condenses on the metal? I.e., have you changed the daily or over-weekend temperature vs time in the building recently?

 

[boosted]

Holy crap! That is insane.

So tell us about your machine coolant. You mix with DI water? Is there mist contamination? Maybe it went bad on one of the machines all the sudden.

 

[mhzinduction]

We have in floor radiant heat in the build. There are no drains in the floor or anything of the sorts and the floors are insulated and sealed from underneath. Nothing in the building ever seems to feel wet at any point during the day, morning night or whenever. The heat is set at 70 degrees, it gets up into the high 70s when the machines are running but doesn't get blow our set temperature. This was the same process that's been in the shop for nearly 3 years now.

 

[mhzinduction]

Holy crap! That is insane.

So tell us about your machine coolant. You mix with DI water? Is there mist contamination? Maybe it went bad on one of the machines all the sudden.

Im using Cimtech 3200-VLZ its a synthetic coolant its what we have used for probably 6 years now. We did purchase a 55 gallon drum of it and it has been in the building for a little while now, I'm not sure if its beyond its self life or not. Only the lathe has a mist collector on it, I recently bought 2 new Royal Products mist collectors for the other machines just haven't gotten a minute to install them. Yes they're mixed with DI water, the DI tanks are changed out often and reading 0

 

[Mechanola]

Are you near a road or city street that gets salted during wintertime?

 

[mhzinduction]

Are you near a road or city street that gets salted during wintertime?

No, we are located about 3/4 of a mile back into the woods from the road and its dirt they hardly plow it. They also use sand instead of salt up here. Also this issue started back in the summertime which is what originally lead us to believe it was a humidity issue.

 

[kenton]

If you card off the loose rust and boil that parallel you would probably get decent bluing. After a few cycles it would probably look great.

Maybe pivot your business to gunsmithing and rust bluing?

 

[deltap]

Does the building have any kind of ventilation? More outside air in winter will lower humidity and dilute any corrosive atmosphere inside the building. There are demisting machines available for machine shops.

 

[reboots]

Noting that no acids are used in the shop. However, I have seen this phenomenon several times in shop environments where apparently well-sealed containers of muriatic acid, ferric chloride, and various plating chemicals were stored. I don't know if fumes penetrated the containers (typically HDPE), or if changes in atmospheric pressure forced venting past the seals. I would investigate any bulk chemical storage on site.

Have you tried picking a temperate, low-humidity day and thoroughly airing out the shop?

 

[mhzinduction]

Does the building have any kind of ventilation? More outside air in winter will lower humidity and dilute any corrosive atmosphere inside the building. There are demisting machines available for machine shops.

We do not have anything open to the outside other than windows and doors. There is no formal ventilation system so to speak. We have considered the need for some sort of air exchanger.

 

[mhzinduction]

I know I said I wasnt gonna post on here anymore, but I gotta help dude out!

I'm a bit of a coolant tweeker if you have seen any of my previous posts.
first I would say that your coolant is a fairly bad (shit)coolant.
It says it is a low Ph coolant, low meaning acidic.
The oil itself is rated 7.9 at 5% mixture it is 7.5, this is a extremely acidic coolant rating.
Just as a reference my coolant Oemeta Novamet 910, standard semi-synth mineral oil based coolant is rated at 9.4Ph at 5%. and no chlorine/chloride.
So as you can see your coolant Ph is just above water, then adding DI water which is acidic nature due to the missing minerals, this is a bad situation.
Also the coolant is full synthetic, this means that there are no oils in the coolant, it is purely a polymer based coolant, using chemicals as the anticorrosion.
These affects with not having mist collectors with HEPA filters is a really bad scenario.

Coolant is only 6-18 months shelf life, 2 years for full synth which you have.

You do know that coolant has a 2.0 refract multiplier correct?, you are using a 2.0 multiplier when checking the coolant?

Also that coolant has chlorine/chloride in it .1%, just another thing to cause low Ph(acid)

I don't know what dehumidifiers you bought, but make sure relative to your output during the day that they are on par.
We create a lot of mist in our shop of 5 machines in 2400sq ft. We had to add three $4,000 dehumidifiers, and in the summer we have also two 36,000 btu mini splits AC.
we barely keep up with humidity.

But our coolant has oil in it, and isn't acidic like that.

And we run mist collectors on every machine with HEPA filters.

Mfg spec. sheet.
Supplier spec.
Novamet 910

Hope this helps, sorry, and good luck

Thank you for coming out of retirement!!!

We appreciate you taking the time and going in depth with your response.

We are leaning toward the coolant left in the drum has exceeded its useful life. We do measure our concentration using a refrac. We maintain a concentration of 4.5-5 (on the frac) leaving us 9-10% solution in the sump. Our humidifiers are not commercial units. We have begun the process of researching larger industrial units.

We are also considering doing fresh recharges with the Cimstar S2 Pink. We tested that alongside the VLZ a few years back before ultimately sticking with the VLZ.

In your opinion, do you think the acidic nature of the coolant could have negative effect on aluminum as well? We have aluminum stock on shelves that had begun to corrode. It leaves a thick dust on the surface of the material and when brushed off, leaves behind pitting.

We appreciate all of the feedback that everyone is offering. This is an incredible community.

 

[mhzinduction]

Noting that no acids are used in the shop. However, I have seen this phenomenon several times in shop environments where apparently well-sealed containers of muriatic acid, ferric chloride, and various plating chemicals were stored. I don't know if fumes penetrated the containers (typically HDPE), or if changes in atmospheric pressure forced venting past the seals. I would investigate any bulk chemical storage on site.

Have you tried picking a temperate, low-humidity day and thoroughly airing out the shop?

I think we have a 1 gallon jug of muriatic in the shop. That is the extent of bulk chemicals outside of the coolant itself.

We open up the bay doors when ever the weather allows, but being in Michigan, we haven't had too many chances in the last few months.

 

[Garwood]

I would grind up a bunch of pieces of flatbar or buy a box or two of those cheap parallels and spread them throughout the shop.

If stuff is rusting in just a few days you might be able to tell what the source is by which pieces rust the fastest/most.

 

[Mark Rand]

I think we have a 1 gallon jug of muriatic in the shop. That is the extent of bulk chemicals outside of the coolant itself.

Move it to a chemical store outside the shop...