Ot...ship hits bridge

[plastikdreams]

So small ships are moving in a temp channel now, only 11 foot draft from what I heard. And one section of bridge has been removed, something like 200 tons.

 

[Ries]

So small ships are moving in a temp channel now, only 11 foot draft from what I heard. And one section of bridge has been removed, something like 200 tons.

its a start. The big span alone is 4000 tons, though.

 

[plastikdreams]

Yeah plus all the crap under water

 

[Peter from Holland]

its a start. The big span alone is 4000 tons, though.

4000 ton is a small lift for the bigger offshore crane vessels
Now hook it up properly

Peter

 

[Mebfab]

I hear they are going to go ship and cargo value as the liability level, the US will pick up the rest of the tab

Once again the little guy takes it in the shorts and the rich cart off the cash.

Ban flags of convenience. Permanently bar any ship flagged in that country and refuse US Navy protection.

 

[dgfoster]

Once again the little guy takes it in the shorts and the rich cart off the cash.

Ban flags of convenience. Permanently bar any ship flagged in that country and refuse US Navy protection.

huh?

Denis

 

[Mebfab]

Billion dollar in damages. The shipping company invoked a law allowing them to skirt most of the damages.

 

[standardparts]

Once again the little guy takes it in the shorts and the rich cart off the cash.

Ban flags of convenience. Permanently bar any ship flagged in that country and refuse US Navy protection.

I agree that ultimately the taxpayer pays the bills but the fact is in addition to the usual rich people fattening their bank accounts there will be thousands of working class people seeing benefits not only in Baltimore but in many other cities.
Upside is Baltimore's infrastructure will get lots of upgrades....and a new bridge.

 

[standardparts]

4000 ton is a small lift for the bigger offshore crane vessels
Now hook it up properly

Peter

"Weeks 533" crane is in Baltimore, along with the Chesapeake 1000,. But yeah...hook it up properly....

 

[jaguar36]

Billion dollar in damages. The shipping company invoked a law allowing them to skirt most of the damages.

Fortunately it is very unlikely that this petition will be granted. They would have to be able to prove that there was no fault, neglect, or want of the ship or the operators. The purpose of the petition is not really to limit the liability (although that is always a remote possibility), its to consolidate all the lawsuits to one court (in this case the U.S. District Court in Maryland). There are a bunch of different courts that could possibly have jurisdiction here, but by filing this petition they move all of the suits to one court which makes it alot easier and more consistent.

 

[dgfoster]

Fortunately it is very unlikely that this petition will be granted. They would have to be able to prove that there was no fault, neglect, or want of the ship or the operators. The purpose of the petition is not really to limit the liability (although that is always a remote possibility), its to consolidate all the lawsuits to one court (in this case the U.S. District Court in Maryland). There are a bunch of different courts that could possibly have jurisdiction here, but by filing this petition they move all of the suits to one court which makes it alot easier and more consistent.

I suppose this opinion will not resonate well with a lot of folks:

I think the shipping company is only partly at fault here. Clearly they are the ones who, after decades of warnings to the port, had a control failure that caused them to "bump" the house of cards and cause its collapse. But the port is, in my opinion, far more at fault for not spending the money to construct adequate protection to the piers on which that fragile bridge stood. It was well known that the bridge would not withstand impact with a large ship. It was only a matter of time. They decided to do nothing knowingly risking property and certainly lives.

I firmly believe that for far less than the cost of removal and replacement competent civil engineers could have designed protections that could have deflected the boat in question. I think the port was negligent resulting in major financial losses and loss of six lives.

So, yes, the shipping company and its insurers have some liability. But the port and the US have a lot more responsibility. I hope we learn a lesson and survey various bridges around the country, rank them in terms of vulnerability and potential monetary and human loss and spend some money now before we spend a lot more under emergency conditions later. To me it's like spending money tooling up the shop. The cost seems high at the time but the benefits virtually always greatly outweigh the outlay.

Denis

 

[richard newman]

Denis, the same could be said about most of the infrastructure in the US. It's aging & deteriorating, and much of it designed and built for a world that has changed almost beyond recognition. Hard to imagine we have the resources and willingness to update, repair or replace it all. We'd have to make some radical changes to pay for it, and that is politically impossible.

 

[gustafson]

Once again the little guy takes it in the shorts and the rich cart off the cash.

Ban flags of convenience. Permanently bar any ship flagged in that country and refuse US Navy protection.

While I 'feel' the same, use some logic. How many ports are without objects that are in the way and can be damaged?
None
How do you have commerce to and from ports if with one small mistake you have infinite liability?
Is the ship owner responsible for the bridge design?
If you build a bridge over and active waterway, do you have zero responsibility for things that might happen to it?
How much would a liability policy for 1 billion dollars cost?
You drive your car around, what insurance policy do you carry?
Do you carry enough to cover all the conceivable damage you could do with it, or enough to cover your house? In Mass you can get away with 5 grand in property damage. Total of all mandatory coverages of less than 100k.

Like I said, I 'feel' like put the screws to them, but logic dictates differently

 

[dgfoster]

Denis, the same could be said about most of the infrastructure in the US. It's aging & deteriorating, and much of it designed and built for a world that has changed almost beyond recognition. Hard to imagine we have the resources and willingness to update, repair or replace it all. We'd have to make some radical changes to pay for it, and that is politically impossible.

Yes, I am aware that the US infrastructure is suffering. I also agree that if it is "politically impossible" to address our infrastructure, we are sure to fail as a nation. We need to look to the future and invest in America. It will pay off in jobs and in so many other ways. It really is not a "cost."

But as long as we are hamstrung by governing by or in reaction to grievance we will be unable to look to the future and we may as well run up the "going out of business" flag. My ten-year-old grandson will be spending time with me in the shop this afternoon. I'll try to explain to him why his future is screwed since his parents and grandparents can't take care of his country for him and his sister. Back in the 60's it was also politically impossible to get a moon mission together. We need to focus on what is in our and our kids' common interest as a nation and go out and make it happen and forget about calling the other guy a moog or some kind of "tard." I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel.

Denis

 

[F0307 Loss Parameter]

huh?

Denis

A lot of ships are registered in a specific country due to tax and regulation purposes, even if their owners are not residents of said country. But they still expect the US Navy to protect them in hostile areas when needed, without contributing to the US Navy upkeep in taxes. Like putting Montana plates on your car when you live in New Jersey. Or registering your California located machine shop in Delaware.

 

[Ox]

Billy Big trailer plates in Maine.

My dad had that back in the 70's, and I still see it sometimes yet today.


--------------------

I am Ox and I approve this here post!

 

[Cole2534]

"Weeks 533" crane is in Baltimore, along with the Chesapeake 1000,. But yeah...hook it up properly....

Sleipnir here has a pair of 10kt hooks.

Of course, it's sitting in Rotterdam. With a 12mph cruise, it's about 300 days away from Baltimore.

 

[Bill D]

Who would send a ship to a foreign country if they could claim it caused damage and you have to pay billions. Better to have a treaty limit of ship + cargo value only. Russia would claim the ship crashed into the Crimea bridge and caused billions of damages ignoring the truck bomb.
They only identified the ship after seeing pictures from Baltimore. A russian court would find the shipping company guilty and try to repossess all assets worldwide.
Bill D

 

[plastikdreams]

"Weeks 533" crane is in Baltimore, along with the Chesapeake 1000,. But yeah...hook it up properly....
View attachment 435124

Funny I was thinking of applying for a safety job with weeks here in nj.

 

[standardparts]

Yes, I am aware that the US infrastructure is suffering. I also agree that if it is "politically impossible" to address our infrastructure, we are sure to fail as a nation. We need to look to the future and invest in America. It will pay off in jobs and in so many other ways. It really is not a "cost."

But as long as we are hamstrung by governing by or in reaction to grievance we will be unable to look to the future and we may as well run up the "going out of business" flag. My ten-year-old grandson will be spending time with me in the shop this afternoon. I'll try to explain to him why his future is screwed since his parents and grandparents can't take care of his country for him and his sister. Back in the 60's it was also politically impossible to get a moon mission together. We need to focus on what is in our and our kids' common interest as a nation and go out and make it happen and forget about calling the other guy a moog or some kind of "tard." I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel.

Denis

Maybe massive political pork being part of large infrastructure along with failing to even come close to completing projects on time and on budget might be part of the problem.
A couple of examples are the Boston Big Dig project and California High Speed Rail....but no doubt the list is long with other examples.