OT: Where to buy/get small quantity of iron ore?

[L Vanice]

Years ago, I toured the Saugus Iron Works in Massachusetts, a restored 17th century iron smelter and water powered iron processing plant. I recall the source of the iron was called bog iron and there was a lot of waste to dispose of after the furnace was run. The big waste dump from the 1600's is still there next to the river that powered the bellows, hammer and rolling mill. I got the impression that the local ore was low grade. It is a great place to visit.

Saugus Iron Works National Historic Site (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

My home in Indiana has a partial facing of local limestone and some of the stones have developed red stains over the decades. I am pretty sure the red stain is rust and it looks like there is very little iron in the few stones that do have the red stains. You would need a huge pile of this rock to hope for any usable amount of iron.

Larry

 

[Lewie]

:-) I could help you out if I was back home in central PA and you were a lot closer. I grew up a few miles from a open pit mine from the 1800s that was re-opened up during WWII for one or two rail cars of ore. :-)
...lewie...

 

[Larry Fahnoe]

Spud, you might do well to contact Ric Furrer at https://doorcountyforgeworks.com/ as he's somewhat nearby and has relevant experience.

--Larry

 

[Spud]

Spud, you might do well to contact Ric Furrer at https://doorcountyforgeworks.com/ as he's somewhat nearby and has relevant experience.

--Larry

Yes I plan on contacting him. A Blacksmith told me about Rick and said I should get in touch with him. He said Rick was featured on the PBS Nova documentary "Secrets of the Viking Sword" because he recreated the legendary Viking Ulfberht sword that was made with wootz steel. I have also communicated with Prof. Wayne Potratz from the U of Minnesota; he has made wootz and taught students to make wootz.

I have adjusted my University research paper to trying to make a Damascus blade from wootz than to make wootz because from my talking to local folks involved in casting and forging I gathered it is easier to make the blade than make wootz. The problem for me is that I need to get this all done by the 1st week of December.

This brings up another problem: where to by a small billet/ingot of wootz, for a reasonable price?

I am still going to attempt to make wootz with the help of a local casting expert.

 

[Spud]

I don't know that the taconite pellets are the sort of ore that you're looking for, no where near rich enough. You're really looking for something near magnetite. Around here you might just collect what's called "magnetic sand". It's mostly hematite and micro-meteoric particles. It collects in washes and can be removed/separated using a good magnet in a plastic bag. After you have a bunch of it just pull the magnet off after inverting the bag.

I talked to a guy here who teaches forging, he too said I need Magnetite. He also said I need charcoal made from wood, not the bbq charcoal like Jonsford because it has sulfur in it. In the Verhoeven and Pendray experiments they say they roasted the Jordanian ore to remove the sulfur and moisture.

 

[richard newman]

I watched the video a few days ago, seem to remember it was the presence of impurities in the ore (vanadium) that was the key to the high quality wootz. How would you get that into the mix?

 

[rke[pler]

There is a fellow on YouTube who claims to be making a wootz steel, but it's really more a crucible steel (aside: it's very possible original wootz was a crucible steel). He doesn't go back to ore but is starting with finished steel. He gets into his process here:

It looks pretty low tech and you should be able to get going pretty quickly. I'd suggest starting with some AISI 6150 steel, it's got a fair amount of vandanium. Not too sure how it'd be in high carbon, I suspect that it might be hot short so be ready with something else like 52100 (ball bearings are a handy source).

 

[crashtestdummy]

I live in Cedar City, iron ore is easy to find around here. Let me know if I can assist.

 

[rklopp]

I live in Cedar City, iron ore is easy to find around here. Let me know if I can assist.

Whatever happened to the concentrator plant they built at Iron Mountain that never really got off the ground AFAIK?

 

[Spud]

I live in Cedar City, iron ore is easy to find around here. Let me know if I can assist.

Is that magnetite?

Thanks for the offer

 

[crashtestdummy]

Whatever happened to the concentrator plant they built at Iron Mountain that never really got off the ground AFAIK?

When the mine first started back up, it was processing already mined ore. They closed down for awhile and then reopened. I sometimes go out that way and it appears that they are mining again. The ore is shipped by rail. Last I heard it was going to China by way of Long Beach.

 

[crashtestdummy]

Is that magnetite?

Thanks for the offer

A magnet will stick well to it, I don’t know what else makes it magnetite. It’s damn heavy also.

 

[crashtestdummy]

It does have the same crystal structure (pyramids) as the Wikipedia photo.

Magnetite - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[crashtestdummy]

Whatever happened to the concentrator plant they built at Iron Mountain that never really got off the ground AFAIK?

Here is a history of the mine, it goes up to the current operation.

Iron Mountain

Information about the history of iron mining at Iron Mountain, Utah, west of Cecar City.

utahrails.net

 

[rklopp]

Here is a history of the mine, it goes up to the current operation.

Iron Mountain

Information about the history of iron mining at Iron Mountain, Utah, west of Cecar City.

utahrails.net

Oddly, the history says nothing about the concentrator plant that was put up around 2008-2012. Somebody lost their shirt on that project. The plant had a SAG mill, ball mill, hydrocyclones, magnetic separators, reverse flotation units, thickeners, filter presses (later belt presses when the filter presses didn't work), and a concentrate dryer.

 

[boslab]

There magnetite heamatite limonite etc etc you probably already know, I have bags of ore in the shed I just never got round to slinging out ( samples from work not enough to do much with, ) like bog iron ( yes it’s a thing ) that was probably the first ore ever smelted.
I wish I was in work, ( TATA steel) the stuff was everywhere but I dread to think how much 50kg would cost to send!.
I have a bag with
Tilden mine, iron ore, Michigan.
Drop them a line
They should be happy to send a bag for a good cause
And educational use is
Nice people btw,
Mark

 

[Spud]

What type of crucible should I get, to melt the iron ore ?

The narrator of the video by Verhoeven and Pendray says they used a ceramic crucible but they used a black crucible. All the black ones I see for sale say graphite. The ceramic crucible are white.

At the Milwaukee Makerspace they have 3 or 4 crucibles but they do not melt steel in them. Not sure why, but I think they feel the crucibles will be trashed. I can't recall if the guy who teaches casting said to get a ceramic or graphite crucible.

 

[rke[pler]

That video I linked to has the whole process of making crucibles and the furnace.

If you're starting with an oxide you'll have to start with some way of reducing the ore to metal. I'm not sure that it's practical below blast furnace but maybe in a good cupola? I've seen mention of direct reduction with hydrogen but it didn't look practical. Anything less than blast or cupola is going to give sponge and you're going to have to work the slag out of it. The output of a cupola is going to have way too much carbon and will have to be puddled or otherwise reduced in carbon.

 

[Spud]

That video I linked to has the whole process of making crucibles and the furnace.

If you're starting with an oxide you'll have to start with some way of reducing the ore to metal. I'm not sure that it's practical below blast furnace but maybe in a good cupola? I've seen mention of direct reduction with hydrogen but it didn't look practical. Anything less than blast or cupola is going to give sponge and you're going to have to work the slag out of it. The output of a cupola is going to have way too much carbon and will have to be puddled or otherwise reduced in carbon.

I don't have the time to make my own crucible, as my paper is due by the 1st week of December but I have to show progress reports well before then of testing date.

So which kind of crucible should I buy? Ceramic? Graphite?

Wootz is crucible steel; the first high temp steel.

 

[HWooldridge]

Graphite will work - although ceramic is closer to what the middle Eastern smiths were using. Wootz is generally called a crucible steel, anything else is pattern welded. That means most Viking blades, Japanese swords, etc. - which are folded and welded instead of using a cast plug.

You will also need a heat source to reliably get above 2500 degrees F. I've read some articles that stated the iron ore is placed in the crucible, then covered with organic material and heated in a charcoal fueled furnace until it melts. The whole thing is allowed to cool then the crucible is broken to reveal the puck. The center of the puck usually has poor quality grain structure so it is reheated and slit down one side (like a "C"), then unrolled to make the basic billet. The blade is gently forged because the puck can have a tendency to fracture under the hammer.

Al Pendray's attempts were aimed at creating Persian Damascus, and he made some really fine blades.