Cat40 spindle rebuild: Thoughts on floating bearings outer races spinning in housing

[machtool]

Just curious. Would that be pronounced 'Thuhr-myke' down there.

You do know how we Abbreviate every thing down here, Aluminium is called Ali.
This Thermite and the John K.
All I can come up with is a word of 4 letters, And that starts with "C"
Neither of them has spent a day in an engineering shop.

 

[machtool]

I'd note my Learned Colleague hasn't been here once since this got techinal. Yet he is over in Manufacturing in America & Europe, solving Boeing's crisis this past hour. In the immortal words of Dwayne Johnson. Can you smell what the fraud is cooking.

 

[machtool]

My Australian associate has been online for all of 3 hours now. Knows all about fixing Boeing, Putin, Ukraine but not one word here since it got more technical than glue. About sum's him up. Fight fair you prick, I love the challange.

 

[just Dave]

My Australian associate has been online for all of 3 hours now. Knows all about fixing Boeing, Putin, Ukraine but not one word here since it got more technical than glue. About sum's him up. Fight fair you prick, I love the challange.

I hear people here say you’re smart, most people may never know that due to your delivery. You need to factor in stress and anger for your future?

 

[nmorong]

Thanks Phil,

I’m going to install it as is. I’m probably worrying too much, but I put a lot of effort into the rebuild and want to be sure every detail is correct.

As for bearings I removed, the upper two were marked only NTN Japan 7009 xx

The lower triplex set was 2 Fafnir 2MM9110WIDULC1 and one NTN Japan 7010 xx

I assume the xx denotes a custom bearing, so I have no idea about tolerances.

-Nate

 

[Milling man]

I by no means want to call myself a spindle repair cpecialist, but i will write a few thoughts about it.
Depending on how the duplex is assembled, the situation may be either normal or worthy of additional study. Most likely everything is fine.
Can you draw a diagram of the bearing installation? Just pencil on paper.

 

[Garwood]

Nothing as it relates to spindles, but before Covid took the owner of the local electric motor rewind shop out, I used to sleeve electric motor end bell bearing bores for bigger motors.

I don't really know what was going on, but I'd get pallets of these endbells with paperwork stating the size/tolerance. So the first batch I measure them up and 9 out of 10 are within spec with a bore gage set to a decent mic. best I can do, for sure within a tenth or two. I call the owner up and ask what's up. He says he's sure the bores are bad- Just bore and sleeve all of them.

So bore and sleeve and bore I did. 100/hr and he mostly got exactly the same condition parts he dropped off over and over again.

I think what was actually happening was he or one of his guys was slipping a new bearing in the endbell bores to gage the fit with literally no clue the bearings were supposed to have a tiny bit of clearance in there. Regardless, I did the work, got paid and never had a comeback.

 

[nmorong]

I attached a little diagram to my original post. The 2 bearings in question are preloaded with the locknut pressing the inner races together and the outer races have no axial restraint by design.

Garwood, that’s interesting. I guess the only reason I have to think it’s wrong is that it just doesn’t seem right.

-Nate

 

[triumph406]

I'm going to fade out again for the next few years. You might find me on an other forum.

Best regards Phil.

I thought you might be here 'cos you outstayed your welcome on the 'other' forum?

Say hi to Dualkit while your over there.

 

[triumph406]

Wouldn't you be more au fait with bulldozers.

Let me guess your solution would be to weld it up and line bore it like an excavator pin? Wouldn't the fact be, you have no fucking idea what your talking about here?

'bout sums it up

 

[machtool]

Say hi to Dualkit while your over there.

I have no fucking idea who or what a Dualkit is / was. Him. Her / they / them. Did they have a spindle I was involved in?

If you have an issue with the entity "Dualkit" perhaps you might take it up with "them" directly. In my 20 years here and the few years I've spent at the dark zone. I dont belive I've exchanged one single word, with your hang up.

*Removed by moderator*

 

[machtool]

I thought you might be here 'cos you outstayed your welcome on the 'other' forum?

I'm fairly certain my passion for solving particular problems is as welcome here as it is at the machinist forum. We could take a vote? Only difference I'm about in the 50 top machine tool engineers. Your about the 1 in 20 million that can make swarf/ scrap.

Why the fuck were you fired up about Dualkit. I dont even know the cat. Never spoken to him before in my life.
Theres a very great reason why I dont participate here often. Please see above.

 

[machtool]

I by no means want to call myself a spindle repair cpecialist, but i will write a few thoughts about it.
Depending on how the duplex is assembled, the situation may be either normal or worthy of additional study. Most likely everything is fine.
Can you draw a diagram of the bearing installation? Just pencil on paper.

Fairly certain they are in a DF face to face arrangment. That's the only way they can work, being locked onto the spindle and internally pre-loaded. Static to the spindle and free to axially float.

 

[machtool]

I by no means want to call myself a spindle repair cpecialist, but i will write a few thoughts about it

Has any one here ever welcomed you? Might be difficult in these times with the Ukraine situation. But if you are here babbling about spindle bearings. That just makes you another industrial gypsie / brother. I had no say on where I was born.
I'm not of American decent, but I love a few of them like brothers. We talk often in private. How cool is this to have a member from Moscow. Which knows his arse from his elbow. (Australian slang, I'll explain it if he hangs around.)
Dont let him go to the Manufacturing cease pool. Somehow he will be personally blamed for the 2020 election.

 

[just Dave]

Nothing as it relates to spindles, but before Covid took the owner of the local electric motor rewind shop out, I used to sleeve electric motor end bell bearing bores for bigger motors.

I don't really know what was going on, but I'd get pallets of these endbells with paperwork stating the size/tolerance. So the first batch I measure them up and 9 out of 10 are within spec with a bore gage set to a decent mic. best I can do, for sure within a tenth or two. I call the owner up and ask what's up. He says he's sure the bores are bad- Just bore and sleeve all of them.

So bore and sleeve and bore I did. 100/hr and he mostly got exactly the same condition parts he dropped off over and over again.

I think what was actually happening was he or one of his guys was slipping a new bearing in the endbell bores to gage the fit with literally no clue the bearings were supposed to have a tiny bit of clearance in there. Regardless, I did the work, got paid and never had a comeback.

I sleeved a lot of motor end bells also . The fit is like machtool mentioned, the two thumb fit. I gathered all the information I could find back then, on bearing fits. My understanding is the outer will warm up in use enough to fill the couple tenths and stop the rotation. Over grease ing can be every bit as detrimental as under in this case.

 

[triumph406]

I'm fairly certain my passion for solving particular problems is as welcome here as it is at the machinist forum. We could take a vote? Only difference I'm about in the 50 top machine tool engineers. Your about the 1 in 20 million that can make swarf/ scrap.

Top 50? You flatter yourself with modesty, Top 5 at least

It's a shame you ply your trade in a manufacturing backwater like Australia. Your talents are wasted there.

 

[triumph406]

. I have no idea what "bout sums it up" means.

You know exactly what it means.

Sorry I should have said:

Machtool, you in a few short sentences encapsulated the capabilities of your antipodean cousin, in respect to, and in the practice of precision engineering. Furthermore I'm humbled by your presence. To be able to even converse with somebody who considers themselves in the top 50 of machine tool engineers is a privilege I'm rarely afforded. It's rare that I'm insulted by a figure as complex as yourself, and it was a privilege I've already forgotten.

 

[TeachMePlease]

I hear people here say you’re smart, most people may never know that due to your delivery. You need to factor in stress and anger for your future?

He's just an Aussie, mate....

 

[triumph406]

He's just an Aussie, mate....

Amazingly Kiwis are even worse. Even more feral then Australians

 

[nmorong]

I installed the spindle today. I guess time will be the real test. Still a lot of stuff to do before I run it, the rusty bearings were noticed while tearing it down to do a bunch of other stuff. I spent a while dicking with the alignment of the housing that retains the upper 6008 bearing and I probably can't align that well enough to avoid enough side force to push the outer race of the bearing below against the housing anyway.