Starrett goes private

[Superbowl]

One of Starrett's problems is that they not only compete with cheap knock off's from China, but also with all the quality stuff they made themselves 50-75 years ago. It is still good usable stuff and always available on Ebay.

 

[Euclidean]

One of Starrett's problems is that they not only compete with cheap knock off's from China, but also with all the quality stuff they made themselves 50-75 years ago. It is still good usable stuff and always available on Ebay.

Even though there is some lightly used stuff on eBay, how long does that stuff last in daily use in a working environment? Don’t gears on dial calipers wear out? And the same for springs on spring calipers, etc.?

 

[DanASM]

ESG – MiddleGround Capital

middleground.com

​

OUR COMMITMENT TO ESG​

We are proud to be the first industrial-focused signatory with assets under $1 billion for the United Nations-supported Principles for Responsible Investment. At MiddleGround Capital, we believe that we don’t need to wait for government regulation to drive change. Real change happens when the people in charge decide to step up and lead. We are proud to step up and be a leader for industrial funds around the globe. ESG is not something that can just be handled with a policy, it has to be incorporated into every facet of the organization. Joining the PRI is a statement to all of our stakeholders that we welcome transparency and want to be held accountable to the highest standards in the industry.

Our Commitment to DE&I:

The diversity of MiddleGround employees is one of our greatest strengths. DE&I efforts are a part of our strategic plan developed and initiated by the Founding Partners and supported by our entire team. We believe that possessing a multi-cultural and gender diverse team is essential for making good business decisions, and key decisions for the MiddleGround Portfolio must be achieved through consensus. We celebrate the diverse experiences and backgrounds of our teammates, and aim to incorporate those values with an inclusive and equitable interview and recruiting process. We encourage our employees to bring their full selves to work, because embracing diversity of our employees makes us better together.

 

[animal12]

Hell, we're all capitalist , it's just that some of are better at it then others .I wanted to be one , it just didn't work out for me . So does this leave us with no other manufacturers of precision tooling that are made in the US of A ?
animal

 

[Euclidean]

Hell, we're all capitalist , it's just that some of are better at it then others .I wanted to be one , it just didn't work out for me . So does this leave us with no other manufacturers of precision tooling that are made in the US of A ?
animal

Did PEC ever make micrometers?

 

[EmGo]

So does this leave us with no other manufacturers of precision tooling that are made in the US of A ?

Possibly some cmm's ? There was M&M, gear measuring/testing machines, like a very specialized cmm for round parts. Those guys were in ... Ohio ? Gleason bought them, still make the product, probably in the US.

Gleason has survived and even thrived by staying private - and not "hedge fund" private. Family-owned private.

It is possible. Seems like one requirement is no fucking venture capitalists. All those places get raped then spit out eventually.

 

[PeteM]

"Feel free to open your own company and pay no attention to your profits. Just make the best possible widget. Take lots of time and be attentive to every customer's needs. Be truthful and tell your customers they can buy your product elsewere cheaper. Just don't ask me to be a shareholder."

Here's another way to think about that gotta-screw-customers-and-employees-to stay-in-the-game scenario.

For years, the average manufacturing (or "real world economy") company made about 5% profit after taxes (with taxes much higher then), paying good wages, training their employees, helping their communities, and so on. Companies had world-class R&D laboratories. GE and GM management training was among the best in the world. That was the US in its greatest post-WWII days and up to 1970 or so.

The Dow 30 companies made stuff back then. Now, they're credit and insurance companies, retailers of Chinese goods, healthcare companies turned into oligopolies, and the like.

As the financial world started making money off money -- think hedge funds, private equity, credit, derivative financial products -- it became increasingly hard for any manufacturing company to get loans or investment. Bright kids stopped wanting to work in industry, when they could go to consulting firms and Wall St.

CEOs from GE to Ford started figuring their credit operations were easier money than actually making stuff. They outsourced anything they could -- and turned their companies into financial operations. Who's going to invest in R&D or a company like Starrett, when Goldman Sachs promises 20% or more on financial derivatives? We've quite literally shot ourselves in the foot by allowing financial-world investment to squeeze out real-world investment.

Naturally, when the underlying assets are gone (e.g. mortage-backed derivatives, companies stripped of assets) everything goes south.

The underlying problem isn't so much that real world manufacturers haven't got nasty enough -- it's that we let make-money-on-money types rule the roost and distort the entire economy.

As for why IBM sold Lenovo, I'm entirely aware of the reasons, having worked on several aspects of the product. The Chinese are doing well enough with the brand - and IBM has sort of managed to reinvent itself (though not to former glory) with new products. Both companies are attempting and often succeeding in providing real value.

 

[PeteM]

To add, it's often other countries that buy up our productive assets and keep them that way. Ries keeps telling us about steel plants. Siemens has done for Unigraphics and I-deas what GE wouldn't. Hexagon, while focusing at the high end, has kept the legacy of Brown & Sharpe alive.

We do have several bright spots left in high tech. The suggestion here is NOT that profits don't matter. Rather, that Drucker was right that the first duty of a company was to serve its customers and that Milton Friedman might have noted that a company had to make a profit to keep investing for the future - not that it had carte blanche to screw anyone and everyone to make a quick buck in the name of its sole purpose being profits for shareholders.

The reality is, once a company reaches break even, it is customers that pay all the bills - and if well run -- the cash flow needed for R&D and growth.

 

[Superbowl]

"Feel free to open your own company and pay no attention to your profits. Just make the best possible widget. Take lots of time and be attentive to every customer's needs. Be truthful and tell your customers they can buy your product elsewere cheaper. Just don't ask me to be a shareholder."

Here's another way to think about that gotta-screw-customers-and-employees-to stay-in-the-game scenario.

For years, the average manufacturing (or "real world economy") company made about 5% profit after taxes (with taxes much higher then), paying good wages, training their employees, helping their communities, and so on. Companies had world-class R&D laboratories. GE and GM management training was among the best in the world. That was the US in its greatest post-WWII days and up to 1970 or so.

The Dow 30 companies made stuff back then. Now, they're credit and insurance companies, retailers of Chinese goods, healthcare companies turned into oligopolies, and the like.

As the financial world started making money off money -- think hedge funds, private equity, credit, derivative financial products -- it became increasingly hard for any manufacturing company to get loans or investment. Bright kids stopped wanting to work in industry, when they could go to consulting firms and Wall St.

CEOs from GE to Ford started figuring their credit operations were easier money than actually making stuff. They outsourced anything they could -- and turned their companies into financial operations. Who's going to invest in R&D or a company like Starrett, when Goldman Sachs promises 20% or more on financial derivatives? We've quite literally shot ourselves in the foot by allowing financial-world investment to squeeze out real-world investment.

Naturally, when the underlying assets are gone (e.g. mortage-backed derivatives, companies stripped of assets) everything goes south.

The underlying problem isn't so much that real world manufacturers haven't got nasty enough -- it's that we let make-money-on-money types rule the roost and distort the entire economy.

As for why IBM sold Lenovo, I'm entirely aware of the reasons, having worked on several aspects of the product. The Chinese are doing well enough with the brand - and IBM has sort of managed to reinvent itself (though not to former glory) with new products. Both companies are attempting and often succeeding in providing real value.

I like to look at all this as God's plan. 50 years ago China was a country of neatly a billion backwards, uneducated, common agriculture laborers. To bring them up they needed skilled manufacturing work. The US was a country with an ever more educated work force who needed cheap labor to make all the wonderful things our brilliant minds invented. Like cell phones, GPS. personal computers, etc.

So far it has worked out. We moved more and more of our workforce into white collar jobs and had the Chinese provide the cheap labor. Of course that hurt some of our blue collar guys (like machinists, but not plumbers) and built a Chinese middle class dragging hundreds of millions of human beings out of poverty. (As I said God's plan.)

Now if we can only avoid a major war until the Chinese people wake up and dump their communist dictators with ambitions to subjugate their Asian neighbors. The world will enjoy peace and prosperity.

 

[Donkey Hotey]

Maybe it's time to go through our Starrett stuff and place another order for spares?

It hardly seemed worth starting a thread over but, about a year ago, the plastic windows on the mechanical 'digital' 216 series micrometers were no longer available. One place had old stock but wanted $25 each and $25 shipping for one. I didn't buy.

Waited a few months and looked again for a supplier. Lo and behold, Starrett had them in stock this time for $5 each. I bought replacements and a few spares. This might be a good time to toss a few more of those in the ol' shopping cart. Fair warning for anyone still using those mics.

 

[stephen thomas]

I think it's fantastic that Starrett still sells and supports so much of their legacy tools, but that's not what keeps the lights on. If they had been making, developing and pushing the limits of digital measuring tools, CMM, probing, carbide tooling, and all the other stuff associated with "modern" metrology and cutting tools, AND been doing all of it here in the states, I think they could have made it. But choosing instead to just put their name on the same imported stuff that the other guys are importing, it's not long before they become another office building with all of the factory floor half the world away. This problem goes back decades...

Despite making blades for power hacksaws, Starrett never was a "cutting edge" company. They were always a marketing and branding company, that bought out companies that made better products, but did not market well. Familiar items being surface plates, 199 precision levels, & gage blocks, just to name products that might be in most people's shops. Starrett always was a marketer, not source manufacturer, of products originated and made by others. They were never in the class of a Brown & Sharpe, or Pratt & Whitney. So Starrett is sort of informative example that marketing companies go on, when manufacturing ones often don't.
(Not that i think that is a good idea)

I still buy Starretts imported stuff, often for the name, mainly because I'm hoping that my little contribution is at least paying for another American to look in the box and see if their foreign crew spelled "Starit" right. It's the same reason I drive Fords, GM's, and Chryslers instead of a Honda's, Kia's, and Toyota's (though now Toyota makes stuff in Texas! How the world flips around.)

I've mentioned the story about my wife running errands and stopping for gas one Sunday morning a few years back.
She came home shell - shocked because some stereotypical big ol' boy had stormed out of his F150 to cross the lot and berate her for driving an "import" car and personally causing millions of jobs to be shipped overseas. He apparently got in her face and would not let up. (I drive a full size USA PU) and told her that most of the parts in Ram & in Ford trucks were manufactured in Mexico or Canada, (both part of "America") despite all the weasel language in manufacturers' and dealers' evasive propaganda. Her Subaru, being manufactured in Indiana from world sourced parts probably had as much or more USA labor and trickle-on/US social benefits in it.

Per buyouts by financial firms -
Seems to have worked for Moore, and for Hardinge?

smt

 

[empower]

ESG – MiddleGround Capital

middleground.com

​

OUR COMMITMENT TO ESG​

We are proud to be the first industrial-focused signatory with assets under $1 billion for the United Nations-supported Principles for Responsible Investment. At MiddleGround Capital, we believe that we don’t need to wait for government regulation to drive change. Real change happens when the people in charge decide to step up and lead. We are proud to step up and be a leader for industrial funds around the globe. ESG is not something that can just be handled with a policy, it has to be incorporated into every facet of the organization. Joining the PRI is a statement to all of our stakeholders that we welcome transparency and want to be held accountable to the highest standards in the industry.

Our Commitment to DE&I:

The diversity of MiddleGround employees is one of our greatest strengths. DE&I efforts are a part of our strategic plan developed and initiated by the Founding Partners and supported by our entire team. We believe that possessing a multi-cultural and gender diverse team is essential for making good business decisions, and key decisions for the MiddleGround Portfolio must be achieved through consensus. We celebrate the diverse experiences and backgrounds of our teammates, and aim to incorporate those values with an inclusive and equitable interview and recruiting process. We encourage our employees to bring their full selves to work, because embracing diversity of our employees makes us better together.

well, say goodbye to them, LMAO!

 

[edwards.a]

I'm conflicted because I'm very much a capitalist. BUT, we as a nation subsidize farmers for food security. Shouldn't there be a way to subsidize our steel mills / rare earth mines / metrology & manufacturing companies for the greater good of national security?

I don't have the answers but here are a couple ideas

- tax cuts / incentives for these types of companies.
- import tariffs
- mandating dod suppliers purchase only domestic tools
- Tesla benefits greatly from carbon credits and like it or not....they're the most American built car on the road...something similar to this?

If it's private equity buying Starrett one thing is for certain .... it's going to hell and that's damn shame.

Pretty much everything you listed is already being done.

Tax incentives for maunfacturing:

Manufacturers: Pay Attention to These Six Tax-Related Items in 2024 - Dannible and McKee LLP

In this article, we have outlined six tax-related items for your manufacturing company to focus on this year.

www.dmcpas.com

Import tariffs:

Harmonized Tariff Schedule

hts.usitc.gov

Mandating "Buy in America":

https://www.madeinamerica.gov/media/documents/buy-american-vs-buy-america-fact-sheet.pdf#:~:text=The%20Buy%20American%20Act%20%28BAA%29%20%2841%20U.S.C.%20%C2%A7%C2%A7,%28or%20domestic%20end%20products%29%20and%20domestic%20construction%20materials.

Related to Tesla, the EV tax credit was recently changed to allow for a tax credit only if the car is American made, and critically if the battery is American made as well:

Which American-made EVs qualify for full $7,500 tax credit?

Ahead of the new rules going into effect tomorrow, April 18, here’s the complete list of vehicles currently qualifying for the $7,500 tax credit amount on purchases.

www.greencarreports.com

 

[EmGo]

Pretty much everything you listed is already being done.
Tax incentives for maunfacturing:
Import tariffs:
Mandating "Buy in America":

Don't forget banning tiktok ! That'll fix it !

You realize this silly crap is like bleeding a guy with cancer, right ? It's only going to make him weaker.

It's all pretty stoopid.

Meanwhile, the real problems go blithely down the yellow brick road, singing happily to themselves.

 

[MateuszMetrology]

Starrett has been in decline ever since the "brilliant" management thought they could make an extra buck by having their tools made in PRC & charge more than Mitutoyo tools made in Japan. Not so. American precision tool users aren't the typical Amazon/Walmart shoppers.
Same thing went with Brown & Sharpe Metrology. Genius management sold the company to Hexagon AB in 2001 which proceeded to gut most of American software development team (the former Wilcox Associates), gut most of American manufacturing capabilities in the Rhode Island facilities & sell whatever small tools they still made to some PRC based outfit.

 

[MateuszMetrology]

Pretty much everything you listed is already being done.

Tax incentives for maunfacturing:

Manufacturers: Pay Attention to These Six Tax-Related Items in 2024 - Dannible and McKee LLP

In this article, we have outlined six tax-related items for your manufacturing company to focus on this year.

www.dmcpas.com

Import tariffs:

Harmonized Tariff Schedule

hts.usitc.gov

Mandating "Buy in America":

https://www.madeinamerica.gov/media/documents/buy-american-vs-buy-america-fact-sheet.pdf#:~:text=The%20Buy%20American%20Act%20%28BAA%29%20%2841%20U.S.C.%20%C2%A7%C2%A7,%28or%20domestic%20end%20products%29%20and%20domestic%20construction%20materials.

Related to Tesla, the EV tax credit was recently changed to allow for a tax credit only if the car is American made, and critically if the battery is American made as well:

Which American-made EVs qualify for full $7,500 tax credit?

Ahead of the new rules going into effect tomorrow, April 18, here’s the complete list of vehicles currently qualifying for the $7,500 tax credit amount on purchases.

www.greencarreports.com

The problem is even if Tesla is 100% American made their car making technology is virtually all foreign made (Japan, Germany & Italy) because American tool suppliers had gone bust successively since the late 1960s.

 

[MateuszMetrology]

To add, it's often other countries that buy up our productive assets and keep them that way. Ries keeps telling us about steel plants. Siemens has done for Unigraphics and I-deas what GE wouldn't. Hexagon, while focusing at the high end, has kept the legacy of Brown & Sharpe alive.

We do have several bright spots left in high tech. The suggestion here is NOT that profits don't matter. Rather, that Drucker was right that the first duty of a company was to serve its customers and that Milton Friedman might have noted that a company had to make a profit to keep investing for the future - not that it had carte blanche to screw anyone and everyone to make a quick buck in the name of its sole purpose being profits for shareholders.

The reality is, once a company reaches break even, it is customers that pay all the bills - and if well run -- the cash flow needed for R&D and growth.

Just recently Hexagon has sold its B&S small tools division to some PRC outfit. Hexagon has mismanaged all of its American acquisitions to the point it's better to spend $$$ on their rivals' equipment. We bought Global S Chrome CMM 2 years & never again. Software is super buggy causing the controller to go haywire, scan speed must be kept at much slower pace because the controller halts out of the blue, and the much advertised simultaneous probe head angle change while in motion wasn't recommended by their own apps engineer (seriously). Already we're looking into Mitutoyo, LK, Wenzel, & Zeiss CMMs for our next big purchase. And why not? Most of that Global S had been made overseas anyway. Hexagon has gutted most of American CMM capabilities including software development. 2020 version was apparently developed in Germany.

 

[Ohio Mike]

They have tons of good quality usable stuff in the used channel, and some pretty decent low cost stuff to compete with in the new market. But the real crux is the entire market is less than is used to be. One guy and a couple CNCs can outproduce a entire room of guys running turret lathes or old school manufacturing mills. So that's now one tool box on the floor instead of a dozens or even hundreds.

 

[Mebfab]

In this case, it wouldn't surprise me to see the eventual buyer as a Chinese company that wanted to manufacture and sell slightly better, slightly more expensive, precision tools. Much like Lenovo after the IBM sale. Which wouldn't be terrible, but also a comment on the economic culture in the US after two generations of MBA's have been taught that the sole purpose of a company is profits for shareholders and a hundred reality TV shows, all that matters is being the sole winner at the end, regardless of how you lie, cheat, steal, or who you backstab to get there.

Lenovo is just down the road. The word on the street is they took the bolts out of the toilet seats. Sit for too long and you slide off onto the floor. No luxury with a chinese overlord.

 

[EmGo]

The word on the street is they took the bolts out of the toilet seats. Sit for too long and you slide off onto the floor.

Those bolts run an inch, inch anda half through the body of the terlet .... I'd consider changing my diet if I was blowing the seats off the bowl.

I hope you bring a wet rag or something ....