Deckel FP 2 questions.

[steelkestrel]

After repairing every drive axis from poor shipping and cleaning the machine from top to bottom it's time to address the bigger issues which I don't think are as bad as I thought they might be. Here are my current questions:

1. How much play should there be in the top transmission "floating" gear. The one in the center that is not on a splined shaft? Has anyone replaced that bronze bushing before?
2. What is the correct order of operations to make sure the gears are in the proper position and that the gear selector is also in the proper position to replace the gear box cover?
3. What is the paticular head on this machine called and is it suitable for general milling operations? Also should there be a level of oil in that head gear box?
4. How do I remove the site glasses on the z?

 

[AlfaGTA]

So never reworked that large gear or it’s bushing.
As to end play my educated guess would give the gear and bushing around .005” of end float ( axial clearance)

Bushing should be running .002” -.003” radial clearance for splash lube.
That is the”Precision Drilling & Boring Head”.

It will tolerate light milling only. Relatively small tools (1/2 “ or less) no deep cuts or heavy cutting stopovers.
Don’t believe that there is any oil in that gear case.

Think removal of the sight glasses will require their destruction.
Might be able to remove the rear plate gibs that the glasses are mounted in.
Might be able then to use a drift to ease the glasses out, but save the aggravation and buy replacements that you can actually see through.
Cheers Ross

 

[AlfaGTA]

Interesting that two FP2’s appear on posts here.
Both from the Pacific Northwest. and both fitted only with the precision boring head, curious.
Cheers Ross

 

[steelkestrel]

So never reworked that large gear or it’s bushing.
As to end play my educated guess would give the gear and bushing around .005” of end float ( axial clearance)

Bushing should be running .002” -.003” radial clearance for splash lube.
That is the”Precision Drilling & Boring Head”.

It will tolerate light milling only. Relatively small tools (1/2 “ or less) no deep cuts or heavy cutting stopovers.
Don’t believe that there is any oil in that gear case.

Think removal of the sight glasses will require their destruction.
Might be able to remove the rear plate gibs that the glasses are mounted in.
Might be able then to use a drift to ease the glasses out, but save the aggravation and buy replacements that you can actually see through.
Cheers Ross

Cool, Thanks. I have waaaay more play than that.

 

[steelkestrel]

So never reworked that large gear or it’s bushing.
As to end play my educated guess would give the gear and bushing around .005” of end float ( axial clearance)

Bushing should be running .002” -.003” radial clearance for splash lube.
That is the”Precision Drilling & Boring Head”.

It will tolerate light milling only. Relatively small tools (1/2 “ or less) no deep cuts or heavy cutting stopovers.
Don’t believe that there is any oil in that gear case.

Think removal of the sight glasses will require their destruction.
Might be able to remove the rear plate gibs that the glasses are mounted in.
Might be able then to use a drift to ease the glasses out, but save the aggravation and buy replacements that you can actually see through.
Cheers Ross

Understood. So the new sight glasses are o-ringed press-in style?

 

[steelkestrel]

Understood. So the new sight glasses are o-ringed press-in style?

Yes, they must be destroyed. They are plastic and just press fit in. Unfortunatly I found the dreded grease behind the the plastic.

 

[AlfaGTA]

Lots documented here on chasing “demon” grease from the early manual Deckels.
Guess in Europe users are smart enough to know that thors fittings are for oil.
Here (US) we are less wise, and when we see a fitting that looks “ Zerk like” we invariably reach for the grease gun.
Check the postings by”balen” he has been there, done that and left a good record (+photos) of his methods.

Cheers Ross

 

[Erik]

Yep. User "ballen" it is.

He has set a path in both text and pictures for us to follow...
Although his FP2 is older than yours...Beware of that.

Cheers
Erik (another FP2 owner)

 

[Peter from Holland]

I had that bronze bearing out once because it was seized up I would give it about 0.02 0.03mm clearance
To assemble the gearbox put the gears as far as possible apart Then the levers in their coresponding position Some grease that holds the brackets in position and then some trail and error Then see if all gears select by manual turning the spindle Good luck
Peter

On edit: I notice some bronze smeared on that shaft
Not lubed properly?? Too tight fit from the get go?? Or a bit of both ??

 

[AlfaGTA]

I had that bronze bearing out once because it was seized up I would give it about 0.02 0.03mm clearance
Peter

Might be OK for a wrist pin where it is not rotating 360* ......This is a splash fed bushing, pretty much the engineering norm is .001+" clearance for each inch of shaft OD....More if lube is spotty...have made and fit
literally thousands of this style bushings in gearboxes , i would give it a minimum of .002" clearance (.050mm) gotta have room for oil and expansion of the bronze when it warms up.
It’s carrying a gear, it’s not a high precision spindle.
Cheers Ross

 

[ballen]

Yes, they must be destroyed. They are plastic and just press fit in. Unfortunatly I found the dreded grease behind the the plastic.

These machines are incredibly robust and seem to survive almost anything apart from being left out in the rain for extended periods. So after some work, you'll end up with a very nice mill.

Here's my thread (now a decade old, how time flies!) on FP2 grease removal:

FP2 vertical table and support tear-down and reassembly

Dear Group, Two of the more experienced people here (Ross and Peter) have encouraged me to remove my FP2's table and support so that I can clean and inspect them properly. Indications are that the oil passages are clogged with grease, and there is something odd with the bottom few cm of the Z...

www.practicalmachinist.com

This post has a link to the correct 20mm sight glassess / oil eyes from Elesa and Kipp. These also fit the FP2 and many other Deckel parts, such as the rotary table:

Help needed on Deckel fp1 sight glasses

Hi all I'm trying to remove the oil sight glasses from my Alexander Master Toolmaker / Deckel FP1 for cleaning the old gunge behind them but I'm not sure how the remove ? Are they screwed in ? Sealed in ? Pressed in ? Before I wreck them getting them out I thought I would seek your help first ...

www.practicalmachinist.com

One further hint: if you learn to use the "extended" search function on this site it will get you lots of relevant info easily. For example put in user 'ballen' and topic 'fp2' and select the 'titles only' box.

Cheers,
Bruce