Hardinge / Elgin lathe restoration

[Dave.Phillips]

I measure the gib screws on both my 7" and 9" swing bottom cross slides as .182" x 36. That's somewhere between a #8 (.164) and a #10 (.190) screw. And .182" is 4.62mm. So what did Hardinge use, an on-the-small size #10???

Irby

Hi Irby!

I don't know... I'm not home at the moment however the OD was a perfect fit for a 5mm with the exception of the threading. A quick look at the threading and I didn't have a thread gauge size in inch or metric that fit or I just missed it. I'm sure it wasn't a metric thread and I'm thinking custom threading at the moment. If you recall my lathe is the 9" swing... Now this brings me to a new or revisit the the age of this...

Larry thought the bed from Elgin was around 1930's that's probably correct and the compound, headstock and tailstock was around 1907. Now I did more digging and found on the UK lathe website that Harding made the compound that I have from around 1920-1930 and it was changed some with the glaring difference that this version didn't have the scraped in look as the pre and post 1920-1930 did. So if that's all correct then maybe the gib screw's are also different from what you and Jim have I don't know.

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Another interesting thing is according to that UK site during the time this lathe was manufactured it was very common for companies like Elgin to source out the other parts for there bed's and I don't remember the manufacturer however one name was commonly used for a time with Elgin bed's headstock, tailstock and compound's.

With all that said it answered my question on how did Harding components make it on my Elgin bed.

Things that make you go hmmmmm

 

[jim rozen]

I do know for a fact that M5 and 10-32 screws are nearly interchangeable - so possibly 10-36?

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Hi Jim ....

I will take another look today maybe I missed something.... Yesterday was spent working on lathe bed.

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Ok I was wrong with dating I think and Larry was probably correct! Below is the photo of my compound and according to Lathe UK web site it's pree 1920's. Larry some how placed my setup at 1907. My compound is missing the decorative hand scraped look and I'm actually surprised that it wearied completely away and I didn't find any signs of it left.

 

[jim rozen]

Those drawings are highly idealized. =) I have what amounts to an NOS slide like that, that never had any decorative flaking on it. Photos on a machine at work, will post later.

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Sounds good Jim!

 

[MrStretch]

I've had the same experience with old Stark lathes. I'm pretty sure Jim is correct, the decorative spotting/snailing in some of the old catalogs is in the imagination of the illustrator.

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Thanks MrStretch.

It's still practiced today lol.

 

[IrbyJones]

Those drawings are highly idealized. =) I have what amounts to an NOS slide like that, that never had any decorative flaking on it. Photos on a machine at work, will post later.

I have a few old slides here that even though they are somewhat worn, also don't appear to have ever had that decorative flaking on them. There are places on them that would never be worn down.

And on a different note - you say you're missing just one gib screw? The #10-36 is a special size, not found in your normal hardware store. It would be interesting to order a couple of them from a place that supplies that size, and get one in a 1A tolerance and one in a 2A tolerance, if those are available, to see if there is a difference in the fit into the slide.

Or, since my nice ole Hardinge Cataract toolroom lathe (http://www.lathes.co.uk/cataract/page5.html) has 36 tpi listed on the threading gearbox, I will volunteer to make you a couple screws that fit into my 9" swing slide and send them to you. You'd just owe me the postage, which could be for a PO flat rate envelope.

Irby

P.S. I'm talking to Dave, not Jim...in case it's not obvious.

 

[Dave.Phillips]

I have a few old slides here that even though they are somewhat worn, also don't appear to have ever had that decorative flaking on them. There are places on them that would never be worn down.

And on a different note - you say you're missing just one gib screw? The #10-36 is a special size, not found in your normal hardware store. It would be interesting to order a couple of them from a place that supplies that size, and get one in a 1A tolerance and one in a 2A tolerance, if those are available, to see if there is a difference in the fit into the slide.

Or, since my nice ole Hardinge Cataract toolroom lathe (http://www.lathes.co.uk/cataract/page5.html) has 36 tpi listed on the threading gearbox, I will volunteer to make you a couple screws that fit into my 9" swing slide and send them to you. You'd just owe me the postage, which could be for a PO flat rate envelope.

Irby

P.S. I'm talking to Dave, not Jim...in case it's not obvious.

Thanks Irby I will take you up on that!!

Ok my missing screw info ...

Length: .8590 inches
OD: .1830 inches

A 10-32 screw according to my measurements is OD: .1860

 

[IrbyJones]

OK, Dave. I'll make a few and as soon as I finish, I'll send you a private message - now called a conversation - to get your address. The length of the screws on my slide is .730", and they don't have a jam nut. They do mike .182" to .183" OD. So your screws must have a jam nut.

Irby

 

[Dave.Phillips]

OK, Dave. I'll make a few and as soon as I finish, I'll send you a private message - now called a conversation - to get your address. The length of the screws on my slide is .730", and they don't have a jam nut. They do mike .182" to .183" OD. So your screws must have a jam nut.

Irby

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Irby yes I have the Jam nuts. According to the Lathe UK data the slides from 1900-1920 had the Jam nuts on the cross slides and from 1920-1930 no jam nuts.

I'm missing the longer screw for the bottom slide.

And I enjoyed looking at the link about the Lathe you have... Is yours museum quality like that link lol

 

[IrbyJones]

Irby yes I have the Jam nuts. According to the Lathe UK data the slides from 1900-1920 had the Jam nuts on the cross slides and from 1920-1930 no jam nuts.

I'm missing the longer screw for the bottom slide.

And I enjoyed looking at the link about the Lathe you have... Is yours museum quality like that link lol

I wish!

There are some pictures of it in your other thread -
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/elgin-hardinge-lathe-help.413202/

...you have to do a lot of scrolling to see them all!

Irby

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Bed work:

Well this weekend I have completed mounting the tool post. We will get to that later!! OMG!!

The bed was stripped down to the casting and wow I can't believe how heavy this casting is for only being 32" long and 3" wide. The color of the casting looked almost like Pewter. I was unable to spray the black because it's been raining on and off the last two days. I'm not sure why they didn't paint the ends of the bed maybe cosmetics or money saving? I'm painting mine to prevent rust.

The ways have some ding's and scratches that I will need to stone however it looks very usable.

Below are some photos of it on my small surface plate table that I'm building and I think I will use that new table to do a down and dirty check of the ways. We will probably see the completed table in a photo soon.

 

[jim rozen]

As promised, photos of a slide for a 9" machine.

 

[Dave.Phillips]

That's nice Jim thanks!! That looks like the same slide I have same Dial's also. According to Lathe UK pre 1920. If I remember correctly they also said it was the only slide with only 45 degree radius. Next version was different radius, dials and know lock nuts in the cross slide gib 1930-1940 something like that.

Your's is sitting on a Harding bed?

 

[markwesti]

I like this thread , searching around on Lathes UK it says that the end was not painted because the screw cutting attachment mounted there .

 

[Dave.Phillips]

I like this thread , searching around on Lathes UK it says that the end was not painted because the screw cutting attachment mounted there .
View attachment 422391

Hey Mark thanks! Well they made two different version of the bed Elgin and Hardinge both made a version like mine without the thread cutting attachment and that side mounted T slot were the attachment would have been. And the second version like your photo with the T slot. If I'm correct the T mounted bed is hard to find now not that my Elgin NO 4 bed is easier to locate lol . And good luck finding a complete threading setup not that it has to do with anything.