Hendey 14x5, Serial #25247

[JasonMorich]

Hello, I am new to the forum and recently purchased this Hendey 14x5, serial #25247. I am looking for any information I can find on the history of this lathe, and have some questions about the rear spindle bearing. After I got the lathe home, I noticed a crack around the edge of the rear spindle bearing. Based on the diagrams of the headstock that I have been able to find, it appears that this part of the bearing is a thin lip to catch oil and not part of the actual bearing surface. Is there any way to repair this without replacing the entire bearing? If not, what is the best option for replacing the bearing?

Thank you,

Jason

 

[enginebill]

If your spindle is not tight in the bearings, I would just leave it as is and not worry about it. I am convinced that Hendey had lead mixed in with their tin Babbitt causing "tin pest" which is what destroys pot metal. Just add oil if too much runs out.

 

[johnoder]

Hello, I am new to the forum and recently purchased this Hendey 14x5, serial #25247. I am looking for any information I can find on the history of this lathe, and have some questions about the rear spindle bearing. After I got the lathe home, I noticed a crack around the edge of the rear spindle bearing. Based on the diagrams of the headstock that I have been able to find, it appears that this part of the bearing is a thin lip to catch oil and not part of the actual bearing surface. Is there any way to repair this without replacing the entire bearing? If not, what is the best option for replacing the bearing?

Thank you,

Jason

"manual" from the old days

http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/docs/hendey/1920-Hendey-manual.pdf

Hendey speeds

Hendey Cone Head Spindle Speeds

One of the most common questions that is posted regarding Hendey Cone Head lathes is: "What is the proper spindle speed for a particular size lathe". This information, for some unknown reason, was not included in the operator's manual. For some years this information was published in the Hendey...

www.practicalmachinist.com

Spindle parts


Parts List

 

[M.B. Naegle]

Was Babbitt still an option when the Tie-Bar design came into play? I think the broken piece is a collar (like pictured in John's post). May have broken from over tightening, but if so it should be bronze or iron and might be possible to braze or silver solder it back together, then use the same lathe to make a permanent replacement once you draw up a print based on the old pieces dimensions.

 

[JasonMorich]

Thank you for the replies everyone. Based on this diagram from the 1920 Hendey Operator's manual, it looks like the broken piece and the bearing are all one part. I was thinking about disassembling most of the lathe to clean and inspect it anyway, so I think I will take the headstock apart to get a better look at it and see if it looks like it could be brazed or soldered back together without damaging the bearing.

Regarding spindle speeds, the post that @johnoder linked shows that the maximum spindle speed for the 14 inch lathe is only 465 rpm while the maximum speed for the 12 inch lathe is 860 rpm. Would I risk damaging anything if I set up my drive system to end up with somewhere around an 860 rpm maximum spindle speed similar to what is listed for the 12 inch lathe?

 

[johnoder]

Thank you for the replies everyone. Based on this diagram from the 1920 Hendey Operator's manual, it looks like the broken piece and the bearing are all one part. I was thinking about disassembling most of the lathe to clean and inspect it anyway, so I think I will take the headstock apart to get a better look at it and see if it looks like it could be brazed or soldered back together without damaging the bearing.

Regarding spindle speeds, the post that @johnoder linked shows that the maximum spindle speed for the 14 inch lathe is only 465 rpm while the maximum speed for the 12 inch lathe is 860 rpm. Would I risk damaging anything if I set up my drive system to end up with somewhere around an 860 rpm maximum spindle speed similar to what is listed for the 12 inch lathe?

Its a very nice ring oiled design - if one pays attention to keeping the ring oiled business in clean condition both in the spindle parts and "oiling parts", use only good lube such as Mobile DTE Light ISO 32 or lighter "turbine" grade machine tool lube (that resides in the wells for the rings) that your concern about speeds will mostly be absent

 

[Peroni]

Was Babbitt still an option when the Tie-Bar design came into play?

Tie Bar bearings are a centrifugal cast aluminum bronze alloy.

 

[hendeyman]

JasonMorich:

Hendey Lathe No. 25247, a 14" x 5' Cone Head model, was completed during mid-April 1924. It was shipped with Taper
Attachment, a Relieving Attachment and a set off No.2 Collets. The original owner was the Pennsylvania Hardware Company, Reading, Pennsylvania. There are no longer any Patterns, Castings or Repair Parts left in inventory for this lathe, but all of the
original drawings are still in the files, so parts can be made if required.

Regarding the bearing material, this was known as Alcoa Alloy No. 92. It tends to get brittle with age, so I wouldn't recommend
trying to remove it. As enginebill and Johnodor have suggested, keeping the oil cellar full of the right type of oil and you should
not any problems operating at the higher speeds. Experiments with this type of bearing has shown that speeds of 2000 rpm
are practical if the bearing clearance and the oil supply are in correct adjustment. Hendey did experiments on a 12 inch Cone
Head in 1929-30 and found that when an ultra fine feed was incorporated, a lapped finish resulted. Except for replacing the
bronze bearings with precision ball bearings, the design remained mostly unchanged. On May 29, 1931, Hendey introduced
the trade to the Hendey No.1 High Speed Lathe, of which most were built for military contractors, including Carl L.Norden, of bombsite fame.

Hendeyman

 

[JasonMorich]

JasonMorich:

Hendey Lathe No. 25247, a 14" x 5' Cone Head model, was completed during mid-April 1924. It was shipped with Taper
Attachment, a Relieving Attachment and a set off No.2 Collets. The original owner was the Pennsylvania Hardware Company, Reading, Pennsylvania. There are no longer any Patterns, Castings or Repair Parts left in inventory for this lathe, but all of the
original drawings are still in the files, so parts can be made if required.

Regarding the bearing material, this was known as Alcoa Alloy No. 92. It tends to get brittle with age, so I wouldn't recommend
trying to remove it. As enginebill and Johnodor have suggested, keeping the oil cellar full of the right type of oil and you should
not any problems operating at the higher speeds. Experiments with this type of bearing has shown that speeds of 2000 rpm
are practical if the bearing clearance and the oil supply are in correct adjustment. Hendey did experiments on a 12 inch Cone
Head in 1929-30 and found that when an ultra fine feed was incorporated, a lapped finish resulted. Except for replacing the
bronze bearings with precision ball bearings, the design remained mostly unchanged. On May 29, 1931, Hendey introduced
the trade to the Hendey No.1 High Speed Lathe, of which most were built for military contractors, including Carl L.Norden, of bombsite fame.

Hendeyman

Hendeyman,

Thank you for the history. Do you ever sell the full set of drawings for a lathe? I would be interested in that from a historical perspective and to have on hand if I ever need to make a replacement part.

Regarding the brittle bearing material, I assume you mean that you wouldn't recommend removing the bearings from the headstock but it should be ok to remove the spindle, right? What oils are recommended? I found another post that recommended ISO 46 or 68 for the spindle bearings and Vacuoline 1409 or Vactra #2 everywhere else for a gearhead Hendey. Is that correct for the conehead lathes as well?

Is there anything else that I would need to be careful of running the lathe at higher speeds? For example, can the carriage reversing lever still be operated at 2000 rpm without damage?

Thank you,

Jason

 

[hendeyman]

JasonMorich:

Yes, I do sell drawings, but may I suggest that you consider buying a few select drawings to start with, after all there would
be at least 1200 drawings in a full set. I can arrange to send you a list to pick and choose from, it might be easier on your
wallet.

Yes, you can remove Spindle for inspection. Be sure to tie the Oiling Rings up so that they will not get damaged. I usually
use a lighter grade of oil on the Cone Heads than on the Geared Heads, mostly a ISO GST 32 or its equivalent. The heavier
oils work well in the Geared Heads.

In my previous post, I mentioned that speeds of 2000 rpm or higher were possible with this type of bearing. Under no
circumstances should you ever attempt to run your lathe at speeds much higher than recommended by Hendey. The Spindle
speed is not the limiting factor, but the Feed Mechanism. The power from the Spindle Gear goes to the Intermediate Gear,
to the Sleeve Gear, then to the Long and Short Bevel Gears and the Back Bevel and finally the first change gear. Because
all of these gears are a 1 to 1 ratio, your 48 tooth change gear is spinning at 2000 rpm in mesh with the rest of the gear train.
The Gear boxes are making noise that only dogs can hear and throwing oil everywhere. The Apron Clutches are slipping
badly and with the lack of lubrication, the teeth on the Worm Gears are starting to strip. Now for the moment of truth, firmly
grip the reverse handle and pull. At first you feel some resistance, but soon it goes away accompanied a brutal crunching
sound as Bevel and Spur Gears and the Dog Clutch are rendered into convenient bit sized bits. Yes, all is quite again. My
point is that this type of Single Tooth Dog Clutch was never intended to operate at high speeds and that most screw cutting
is done at slow speeds.

The reason that the No.1 High Speed can reverse the Carriage at speeds of 5000 rpm is that the Revering Clutch is located
at the end of the gear train and next to the Feed Shaft. By changing the standard Pinion Gear from 24T to 16T, General Electric was able to get a feed rate of more than 3700 threads per inch. With the Feed Shaft turning this slowly, it was an
easy matter for the clutch to be able to change the direction of Carriage travel. Altogether, a very simple and practical design.

Hendeyman