Is there a good alternative to McMaster Carr?

[Rough-cutter]

My situation : I am a 1 man shop. Doing one off prototyping and modification work in an R&D lab. I work for a very large aerospace corporation. However my department seems to be underfunded. I have a minimal set up. 1 haas tm2 , 1 Harrison aa10 manual lathe, 1 drill press, 1 band saw, and that's about it. We do what we can with what we have.

I just saw a company wide email that has a list of vendors. It says vendors on this list will be phased out and no longer used by March 2024. It says we are to find alternate sourcing.

On the top of that list is McMaster Carr. Literally 99% of what I purchase is from McMaster. Raw material (mostly aluminum) fasteners, etc... We even have McMaster part#'s listed on some of our drawings in the BOM's for special type hardware and things that were used when they designed fixtures and things.

I know about "online metals". Maybe that will work for sourcing raw material. And I wish I had a more local source as well. But to completely fill the void that McMaster has taken up will be a challenge.

My frustration with my employer is that they are a multi billion $ company. They at the top decided this. And tell us to figure it out. In my opinion if my boss tells me I can't use McMaster. Then my boss can tell me who I can use instead. But my boss is simply a messanger and has no idea about McMaster or anything really.

Any suggestions to completely replace McMaster?

 

[Thunderjet]

Any suggestions to completely replace McMaster?

Amazon

 

[Donkey Hotey]

I just saw a company wide email that has a list of vendors. It says vendors on this list will be phased out and no longer used by March 2024. It says we are to find alternate sourcing.

Ask them what they plan to do with your equipment and if you should be looking for a new job now or if they have other plans for you.

The place is being run by drooling idiots.

On the top of that list is McMaster Carr. Literally 99% of what I purchase is from McMaster. Raw material (mostly aluminum) fasteners, etc...

Yeah, they are the last hardware store in North America. The next best that I know of isn't even close. What you have is an out of control global supply chain person, with zero experience in buying anything.

I know that there have been problems with McMaster changing or deleting part numbers over the years. There have also been some material substitution issues or supplier changes where the substitute wasn't quite the same. Things where you have to use domestic suppliers (bearings for example). Drawings have a problem when ten years from now, the widget you found in the big yellow book isn't there anymore.

Are the deliverables out of your shop given to an outside customer? Are they long-term supportable (meaning they might need to be fixed five years from now)? Are they tools where they'll be used for their immediate life as-is and then discarded (so they'll never need spares)?

If you are truly building internal prototypes for the company, none of those rules apply. They're going to put themselves out of business just because.

 

[Rough-cutter]

Ask them what they plan to do with your equipment and if you should be looking for a new job now or if they have other plans for you.

The place is being run by drooling idiots.


Yeah, they are the last hardware store in North America. The next best that I know of isn't even close. What you have is an out of control global supply chain person, with zero experience in buying anything.

I know that there have been problems with McMaster changing or deleting part numbers over the years. There have also been some material substitution issues or supplier changes where the substitute wasn't quite the same. Things where you have to use domestic suppliers (bearings for example). Drawings have a problem when ten years from now, the widget you found in the big yellow book isn't there anymore.

Are the deliverables out of your shop given to an outside customer? Are they long-term supportable (meaning they might need to be fixed five years from now)? Are they tools where they'll be used for their immediate life as-is and then discarded (so they'll never need spares)?

If you are truly building internal prototypes for the company, none of those rules apply. They're going to put themselves out of business just because.

Amazon

Haha. Amazon is also on the list. Non proffered. Phased out vendor.

 

[Rough-cutter]

If you are truly building internal prototypes for the company, none of those rules apply. They're going to put themselves out of business just because

Most of what I do is considered non deliverable. Sometimes I make things for test rigs that are sold and delivered to customers but are not a Part of our sold products. And prototyping sometimes goes through environmental qualifications. Which means it is suppose to be exact spec of the sold product but will not be sold. And I also do alot of other things that are considered no documentation needed. But I agree. They make it messy putting these rules over everything when they may need not apply.

 

[Rough-cutter]

Should I be looking for another job? Yes I have felt that for a long time. The problem is any management I have contact with says. "No you don't need to worry, we are not discussing getting rid of the mechanical shop." But management that makes those decisions I never have contact with. The company is large enough that it is being run by people who don't work there and have no information on what we do other than high level cost accounting.

 

[rklopp]

Phase out McM to save cost? That's nuts. The bean counters are clueless about avoided cost of dealing with order screwups, delays, and multiple vendors. That avoided cost is not tracked so it does not exist as far as the bean counters are concerned. But it will definitely exist if you dump McM. You're not me, but I would keep submitting McM orders and if someone pushes back, throw the requisition in their lap and say, "OK, smart person, you get me these bolts/bearings/rods/etc., and have them on my desk by 3PM tomorrow. Have fun!"

 

[Ohio Mike]

Phase out McM to save cost? That's nuts. The bean counters are clueless about avoided cost of dealing with order screwups, delays, and multiple vendors. That avoided cost is not tracked so it does not exist as far as the bean counters are concerned. But it will definitely exist if you dump McM. You're not me, but I would keep submitting McM orders and if someone pushes back, throw the requisition in their lap and say, "OK, smart person, you get me these bolts/bearings/rods/etc., and have them on my desk by 3PM tomorrow. Have fun!"

Exactly, the labor overhead to source all the needed items would kill their bottom line. And then you've paying shipping on 5 or more orders from various places instead of one. I kind of wonder if the bean counters are cutting companies that won't play their Net 120 shell game?

 

[Donkey Hotey]

One of the flaming hoops we used to have to jump through: Global Supply Chain had some deal worked out with sellers like McMaster, MSC, etc. It was a discount over the published prices, BUT...

To get those prices, someone from Global Supply Chain had to do the purchasing.

With a purchasing card, anyone in the department could complete a retail McMaster shopping cart, email it to me and I could pay for it. Done. On our dock the next day.

But to get Global Supply Chain's pricing, we had to take each item number, description and quantity and input that information into a purchase order in SAP. The order would go through this long, tortuous process and it was full of chances to make mistakes.

When it was all done, it would take them a week or more to get us the parts. The best part is that with our hourly rate and all this manual entry, absolutely ALL of the savings was gone. Even orders in the thousands of dollars didn't amount to more than a few hundred saved and all of that was torched in labor before the order was even placed. The final cost to the customer (internal or external) was much higher.

Oh but, they're preventing fraud? Every line item for something bought on a purchasing card had to be reconciled monthly in SAP. It had to go against an accounting code and have a description of what it was. Neither process left any room for fraud. It was just the buyers keeping their monopoly over the process.

 

[13engines]

Misumi USA
MSC
Grainger
Mars Supply
Maryland Metrics
B & F Fastener Supply -Minneapolis, MN (Much lower fastener prices then anyone I've found)
Fastenal
Fixture Works

 

[Machinery_E]

Zoro? But I have noticed they can be higher pricewise than McMaster, but with the discounts they email, and free shipping, they can be cheaper.

 

[DanASM]

Send me a P.O. and I will order it from Mcmaster for you.

I get this all the time from customers. They just want a paper trail and if something is wrong they get to point to the P.O. and pass the blame on to someone else. I charge a little extra and dont have to machine anything on my end and it doesnt take up my time.

 

[Archer120x]

Big company finance hates McMaster because McMaster won't bend over and accept big company terms and conditions. McMaster has never wavered the few times I have seen them on the do not buy list.

 

[Archer120x]

Send me a P.O. and I will order it from Mcmaster for you.

I get this all the time from customers. They just want a paper trail and if something is wrong they get to point to the P.O. and pass the blame on to someone else. I charge a little extra and dont have to machine anything on my end and it doesnt take up my time.

One place I worked, you could buy from any unapproved vendor, throught the company that provided site security, at an 18% adder.

 

[EMTech]

Carr Lane has some

 

[Donkey Hotey]

Big company finance hates McMaster because McMaster won't bend over and accept big company terms and conditions. McMaster has never wavered the few times I have seen them on the do not buy list.

Yep. This is one of the things that gets them added to that Do Not Buy list over and over. Corporate wants the ability to return anything, at any time, without questions. Donuts, toilet paper, half-used box of fasteners. Anybody who says no, gets taken off the list.

And that created agents like Area 51. They will buy your McMaster stuff, basically double the price and sell it to you with the guarantee that they'll take it back, no questions asked. I'm not kidding. The corporate morons think that sounds swell. Ask if Area 51 is an acceptable supplier.

Solutions - Area51 Electronics

Industry Solutions. Check out Area51 Electronics' solutions and services for Aerospace, Automotive, Medical, Energy, and Industrial Automation.

area51esg.com

 

[Rough-cutter]

1. Absolutely my company abuses payment due dates and pushes net 30 to net 90 to net 120 days. So it is possible these vendors are saying no more. We must be paid on time.
2. 100% that is how we do purchasing. I must put in the order in SAP and then some one else puts in an order through procurement. It takes more time and money that is not captured. It is dumb.
3. If I continue to put in orders to McMaster. I will get push back. I have already gotten push back on Amazon order. I put in the order. Then procurement emails me and says find another vendor. Then I tell my boss. He tells me that I should tell procurement to find another source, that is thier job. Then procurement tells me they can't or don't know how. (Sometimes they will find an msc equivalent but really these people don't know about specs or hardware. They are just glorified data entry. More of a purchasing rather than true procurement). Then the thing we need is just not ordered. I communicate that to the project. Then this starts a giant chain of emails trying to figure out what to do. Then they literally suggest to do what I did from the start. (Put in an order through sap to procurement to purchase through the original rejected vendor.)

Thank you for the list of suggestions. I will look into them. My new years resolution is to be more positive. But it is hard when I often feel surrounded by incompetence. And sometimes. I believe these decisions are made to make us fail. Make us loose money. To Then justify cutting or selling off our buisness unit. To Then free up capital for a different company / depth. Within our umbrella corporation.

Without exposing the name of my company. We have been murged , bought out I think 3 times. Consolidated from 4 major businesses to 3. Been through now 3 ceos and will have a different one next year. Have done major cost cutting mesuares. All of this within the last 5 yrs.

 

[Thunderjet]

If I continue to put in orders to McMaster. I will get push back. I have already gotten push back on Amazon order. I put in the order. Then procurement emails me and says find another vendor.

There may be another work around.

Order it YOURSELF, take in the paid receipt from your debit card and draw from petty cash.
I do this almost every week when I need a certain thing from Menards or Home depot.

Maybe they won't let you do it that way, but maybe they will.

 

[CarrollJamieson]

Gosh that's a tough one to replace. Some of the online metals dealers used to be pretty competitive. Now McMaster ended up being my go to for a lot of small one off parts/material not only due to lead time but cost too. I have used Coremark Metals a fair bit for metals, but you're not getting a lot of special grades from them.

Zoro is my preferred supplier for most equipment/tooling for my shop with the almost perpetual 10% discounts and free shipping. Downside with Zoro is finding material and the correct specs/grades can be a little challenging though, I find I have to pay a lot closer attention to make sure I'm getting what I think I am. Productivity Inc. covers my machine tooling outside of more generic items like drill bits.

As I grow I find myself trying to find specialized companies that just deal with bearings, oils, ect, and less of one stop shop for everything. I cut Amazon out a few years ago. I'm happy I did as it forced me to find a lot of other small companies that I otherwise wouldn't have worked with.

 

[Covenant MFG]

Should I be looking for another job? Yes I have felt that for a long time. The problem is any management I have contact with says. "No you don't need to worry, we are not discussing getting rid of the mechanical shop."

I wouldn't call myself a professional lie detector, but ehm... what are the odds that they'd tell you the truth if they actually were planning on sacking the shop?

More realistically no one cares about the shop enough because it's someone else's problem, so they won't sack it, but they will choke off the resources you need. Unless you're seeing more money, security, or better conditions coming your way for a specific reason, it sounds like this job is only gonna get worse with time, not better.