New Haas Desktop CNC Mill, surely some mistake?

[Rob L]

If it is aimed at schools the lessons will not be long enough to setup and run a larger machine.

Grand daughter came home with some keyrings that she cnc’d at school, she was over the moon.

Until then they had made items from sheet plastic that was cut by hand and heat bent into shape, following year they moved up a level and started to use the newer machines.

This was a few years ago and she is 16 now, so it must have been 12 or 13 year olds?

I seem to remember schools In the UK were using Denford and Emco cnc machines.

It does seem like schools have finally realised there are careers in manufacturing again, back when I was in the final year of high school (2005) I remember all the manual lathes being removed and not replaced, none of them had been used for literally years and at the time I had no idea what you could even really do with them as the teachers never mentioned them.

Some 10 - 12 years later a young lad started as an apprentice at a shop I subcontracted some work too and he had been at the same high school, turns out they'd recently purchased a number of new manual lathes and milling machines, more importantly the students had been allowed to actually use them! Quite heart warming actually.

I've had a couple of friends who have done mechanical engineering degrees too, both got to use manual machines a bit, one said the CNC mill at the uni he was at sat unused all the time and the other had to design a part to be CNC milled but was told the stock size, fixturing method, what tools would be in the ATC and then someone (actually a service engineer who used to fit out VMCs that I happen to have met a few times) would actually come in to verify the programs and run the mill, the students didn't even get to press cycle start

Boxford have always been a staple of education focused machines too along with Denford, funny you should mention Emco as I was offered an 'ex-college' Emco VMC, I think it was the PC based control with the Fanuc and Siemens overlays, quite a nice looking machine and I was told it next to no hours on the power on counter (sub 100 I think, over 15 years old), had only just broken into two figure cutting time and the coolant tank had never been filled.

I've seen similar with a lot of other machines, I missed out on a cheap Leadwell LTC10 which was ex college/uni and had basically had no power on time, generally ex-college seems to be code for barely used, I'm always on the look out for them.

It sounds like the US is a bit more on the ball when it comes to practical training in an education setting and the UK is improving but perhaps behind.

 

[Kevin Wilkins]

I wonder if simultaneous 3 axis moves will be possible, allowing for 3D milling? I hope so! I think it could be an interesting option for schools and small startups when used in combination with 3d printing for making prototypes and small parts. Not everything can be 3D printed ... yet. A lot will depend on price but its coming from Haas will mean that parts and service are readily available as well as a good resale value.

 

[Volitan]

Someone posted about that machine a few months ago, and I think the reaction was the same as yours - it's a mistake.

Too little functionality for the price, even if just a training tool.

What's the price? I can't find it.

 

[TonyStark]

My college had a lab full of small Intellitek benchtop CNC mills and lathes for teaching G-code on.

So did mine. But the Intellitek’s were epoxy granite machines with linear rails and ball screws. Some even had toolchangers and servos. I got one for free when a controller blew, retrofitted it it with a new servo system and could cut aluminum at 200+IPM.

This haas machine is a $100 cnc router frame. While I agree students don’t need to be getting massive material removal, they do need to learn HSM, tool offset libraries, and other concepts to be competitive.

Haas would have been much better pairing their control with something like a baby tormach machine.

 

[Milland]

What's the price? I can't find it.

I read somewhere (but can't quote a reference ATM) $9K.

Edit - from the comments in the Youtube link:

"I've heard from a Haas salesman that it would be around €9000. Not cheap for what you get..."

 

[gkoenig]

I read somewhere (but can't quote a reference ATM) $9K.

Haas already sells the EDU Mill - a stripped down, 4k RPM, TP series machine without a tool changer for $20k to the same target audience. 10x the machine at only 2x the price seems like a no brainer.

I was thinking that perhaps this is a platform for teaching folks how to hand G-code stuff, because this machine is basically crash proof. Then I realized the same results could be had in any mill by locking down the work holding/tools and throwing some travel limit parameters onboard.

So I guess I'm just failing to see the Haas vision on this thing; while this clearly wasn't an R&D project they are betting the company on, I am sure they have something telling them this was a good idea. I'm very curious as to what that is...

 

[Mike1974]

Haas already sells the EDU Mill - a stripped down, 4k RPM, TP series machine without a tool changer for $20k to the same target audience. 10x the machine at only 2x the price seems like a no brainer.

I was thinking that perhaps this is a platform for teaching folks how to hand G-code stuff, because this machine is basically crash proof. Then I realized the same results could be had in any mill by locking down the work holding/tools and throwing some travel limit parameters onboard.

So I guess I'm just failing to see the Haas vision on this thing; while this clearly wasn't an R&D project they are betting the company on, I am sure they have something telling them this was a good idea. I'm very curious as to what that is...

I'm sure the desktop size and 110v power are pretty nice attractions for a school. Wheel it into the class, plug it in and go. Art class wants/needs to use it, wheel it into their class and go, etc.

 

[SIM]

Personally I think its a great idea.

I put someone on as a "summer intern" this past year that took a course at his college that had a Haas Mini Mill.

It was a pleasure to see a young man be able to work his way around the control, know how to jog table, get spindle on to do basic setups and make offsets. He was somewhat familiar with G-Code...at least well enough to make some basic moves while knowing how to avoid bumps and bruises.

Speeds and feeds, DOC he kinda had an idea...but knew enough to know he didn't really know.

Point is after a few week class this young man knew his way around the Haas Control made some chips and learned enough to get him excited about learning more.

Think about that...a real world CNC control, not some fannie flammer PC based hobby toy.

Not too many schools are going to spend 50k on a Mini-mill,plus the compressor, and electric but if they could buy 5 tabletop mills that get plugged in to build an appetite...

Plus learning on a Haas control-
and not on a simulator...something about seeing the physical moves that puts it all into perspective, ties it all together...at least for me it did.
When I bought my first, I watched the moves on the screen...but it wasn't till I put the pencil in the spindle and marked up the plastic that I really got it and the rest just kinda followed along in step.

So learn on a Haas-

They are Hugely popular
Learn one Haas control you pretty much know them all

If you learn the Haas Control, its not a far leap to others.


Another up side to a small little table top thing is the chances of getting hurt decrease from say a VF-1 where CAT 40 tooling can get large, lots of mass moving around with some substantial power behind it.

 

[btm]

I think its a great stepping stone for a beginning student. They learn the control and get to see the actual machine movements without crashing an expensive VMC.
However, I don't see it being used much for hobbyists as mentioned in the video. Most hobbyists need to machine more than plastic. I'm betting the price is probably out of the hobbyist range as well.


btm

 

[bmikkalson]

These are a great idea, learn G code and the control. Making functional and useful stuff from plastic is a great way to keep kids focused .
It’s small, cheap, and will be reliable like all the haas I’ve used. Plus there online education vids are amazing .

 

[rcoope]

The dark secret of CNC machines in academic settings: They sit unused because senior instructional staff don't understand them and are frightened!

I'm quite pleased about this thing. Having a real control attached to a machine that can do something would be a great starting point though in a dream manufacturing program you'd want to back it up with the TM EDU or VF-2 once they get the hang of things. As has been said already in this thread, getting students to the point they can establish a coordinate system on some stock and run a CAM created program to run profiles and pockets is the key first step to operating a CNC safely. After that they can learn HSM and such but most of that learning is on the CAM package. And I agree the key here really is the price point, so we'll have to see what it actually is.

I've been asked for advice on a few recent academic CNC purchases and people seem to have ballpark $25K, for a machine to be operated by enthusiastic but inexperienced engineers in a building that wasn't designed to be a shop. In these cases the Tormach is very attractive, both for size but also floor load, single phase and ability to get through single doors. Haas has the CM-1 but it's a serious small machine, more like a Kern than a Tormach. We a current project where a colleague of mine who is an engineering program director is putting a new shop in, and has proper institutional $$ for power feed, but choice of Tormach was being driven by the door issue. We had a site visit and me, another engineer and a machinist all independently said, "oh dear Lord, put a double door in your reno budget, you will be forever glad you did!" We'll see what happens with that one but in general I'd say if Haas had something compact and lowish power but with the real Haas control, it would be compelling for both labs and manufacturing programs.

 

[Wsurfer]

I suppose the value is learning a real control and they are infinitely easier to use than Mach or Linux. I didn't see a tool changer or a probe to set work offsets in the video though. At least they could get there hands on the machine even if you can't really make anything.

My son went to college where they had a few HAAS machines. They learned manual first on mills and lathes, but wouldn't let them touch the VMC's. They sat behind locked cages doing nothing most of the time. Students had to give their files to the machinist to run basic parts. He felt completely ripped off for what he paid for college.

Fast forward to his first real job. The company had a tiny sherline CNC 3 axis mill sitting in a corner, never been used because no one could figure out how to make the CNC function work with a computer. He got it all up and running making small delrin parts. He said the little mill was a pos, but you could male small parts albeit inaccurate with ugly surface finish. He said the best part of it was you could crash the shit out of it learning cnc, and it didn't have enough power to hurt itself.he said it couldn't even break a 1/4" end mill. I think the whole system was 3k.

 

[ss_user]

So did mine. But the Intellitek’s were epoxy granite machines with linear rails and ball screws. Some even had toolchangers and servos. I got one for free when a controller blew, retrofitted it it with a new servo system and could cut aluminum at 200+IPM.

This haas machine is a $100 cnc router frame. While I agree students don’t need to be getting massive material removal, they do need to learn HSM, tool offset libraries, and other concepts to be competitive.

Haas would have been much better pairing their control with something like a baby tormach machine.

Not knowing the price that was my thought. The Tormach uses linuxcnc.I don't like the Axis interface. A machine control should look like it is on a machine ... not a VCR. However, the underlying control is pretty good. The G code looks pretty much like a Haas.
Gmoccapy looks much more like a decent control. Google is your friend. I was not aware of the Intellitek.As an exercise I guess I should go look have a look.

 

[gustafson]

if it can actually handle aluminum,I don't know why it wouldn't, I could see it being useful

if it really only does plastic, most people would prefer a 3D printer

having something that takes the same code as a machine on the line could have some upside in engineering, or be useful in education where the next step is running your part on an actual Haas

 

[Gobo]

Almost as cheesy as the video guy's mustache. Almost.

But, it'd be fun to tinker with I think.

What, the mustache?

 

[Lazyman]

The Haas mill is a Chinese generic 4030 router you can buy on Ebay with the Haas control and enclosure added. Just seems like such a big company like Haas could have done better with all their resources available.

 

[Kevin Wilkins]

Have you examined one of the Haas machines in person? It will be interesting to hear what Haas says to your comments. If they did actually just buy any old China router and are now selling it as a "Haas" that will quite a step away from their other machines and their customer base.

The Haas mill is a Chinese generic 4030 router you can buy on Ebay with the Haas control and enclosure added. Just seems like such a big company like Haas could have done better with all their resources available.

 

[Milland]

Have you examined one of the Haas machines in person? It will be interesting to hear what Haas says to your comments. If they did actually just buy any old China router and are now selling it as a "Haas" that will quite a step away from their other machines and their customer base.

In some ways it doesn't matter. Even if it's all Haas designed and built, the actual capacity seems oddly minimal when you consider concept and cost. Yes, I get that it could be attractive to schools, but the same basic package, with just ~$1k more in proper hardware could actually be useful and cut at least Al, not just plastics and such. No tool changer needed (although it would be nice), just materials and beef enough to stiffen the design, and provide a little more Z.

 

[Kevin Wilkins]

I think it will matter a lot! If Haas is now just buying OEM China tools and slapping a Haas label on them, this will be a major departure for Haas and I think, a major mistake. I reserve judgement until there is definite evidence or Haas comes out and makes a statement.

Machine capabilities and performance are totally separate issues.

 

[evotechcorp]

It looks like they are going after a specific market since the control comes with programs pre-installed to finish machine 80% firearm receivers. Not a bad idea to try and get a piece of a $52 billion dollar industry but unfortunately the AR15 market is already saturated so I guess the clients will be home gunsmiths or dreamers that think they can still introduce a new needle to the haystack...