One for the boneyard

[Martin P]

From a current advert in Germany:

 

[joaquin suave]

I can dig it! I am sure it is not the first precision machine tool that has been "re-purposed"...
AS AN AVIARY!

 

[Martin P]

Aviary:

 

[Kees]

A real barn-find. I doubt these machines will ever run again.

 

[jdm1]

How much is being asked? Sometime that is the most bothering part of these listings. As if the machine, or car, or bike, was to gain value while rotting.

 

[Martin P]

These are actually excellent machines from a well run shop. Machines are straight, maintained, no wear on operator consoles.
They are out of service now for 2.5 years and were advertised for a long time, but with no price given. So everyone, including me, thought they would probably be asking too much. AT's with Contour 3 are almost worthless though, which I find wrong.
They are now coming to an online auction and it will be interesting how and if they sell. But with all the overheads it likely makes no sense. Also beware of FP2A D11 from same source, as it has parts missing, which is handled as "non-inspected" by the auction house.
I think starting bids will be 2k€ for each machine.

 

[jdm1]

I need to correct my post. The first pictures made me think of a machine casually ending stored in the open by someone not knowing what it is. But the 2nd set shows a reasonable storage for something which if sold "intelligently" might even find someone able to use them.
My beef is with pro and individual sellers asking absurd prices for junk machines on the basis that "they don't make them as used to be" or similar BS. At least in my EU country, which ironically made and exported an huge amount of machinery.
I think the issue of having to deal with all that truly obsolete mechatronics is an huge hurdle for most buyers anyway. Not everyone has the time and skill to remedy that, and you can't use the machine in manual mode either.

 

[Martin P]

When I see a dealer advertising without price I assume its so expensive he is too embarassed to tell. So I do not even ask.
This here would have been worth it, but its not the control I want (though its OK).
As to obsolete electronics, I can see that, but here a company had at least 7 Deckel Dialog machines and with just a little foresight and decent service techs in the area, they never needed to be down for more then 2 days in any case (in my opinion).
Also Contour 3 /Dialog controls are really cheap now. As for their D11 machines, those would be higher priced if they buy from service techs. There are too many people that will not work for less than 300% margin.

 

[Kees]

To old for professional users, to bulky for home or hobby users. These machines are in no mans land. Perhaps some demand in Eastern-Europe.

But please let us know how the auction went.

 

[Martin P]

This is a very nice FP3ATC from a trade school (only the 2nd I ever hear about) and sold by a DMG dealer/service partner(?).
4800€ and garanteed to work.

CNC Fräsmaschine Deckel FP3ATC

Deckel FP3ATC Contour 3 Steuerung in sehr gepflegtem Zustand. Voll funktionstüchtig und mit...,CNC Fräsmaschine Deckel FP3ATC in Rheinland-Pfalz - Auw bei Prüm

www.kleinanzeigen.de

He does not even list it on his home page, probably does not want to spoil the designer-white appearance of his saloon, or scare potential customers with green screens.
Would be an interesting project to convert to D11.

 

[DeadMahoDude]

Another very dead one:

Deckel FP 3 NC Ersatzteile Grundgestell Fräsmaschine

Verkauf gemäß Fotos Ca. 600kg Inkl Verladung Versand ca. 180€,Deckel FP 3 NC Ersatzteile Grundgestell Fräsmaschine in Brandenburg - Groß Kienitz

www.kleinanzeigen.de

 

[Martin P]

Yes, but this guy is an inexplicable idiot.
In needed some sheet metal from the machine he parted out, he advertised it for sale.
Being in Berlin I could have picked it up myself.
But he does not respond to my inquires, ever! It flabbergasts me, since I write normal or friendly messages. But no matter what I do, he does not respond.

BTW he parted that machine out since no-one wanted the complete machine. It was a TNC355 and supposedly fully working.

 

[DeadMahoDude]

It was a TNC355 and supposedly fully working, lol ;-D

With seized ways like that, especially on Z-axis, which is argueably the hardest to repair, no surprise, noone wanted it.

 

[Martin P]

Yesterday was the auction for the machines shown above with the title "aviary".
The auction pictures were much nicer, having been taken in the factory in situ.
The results were:
FP4AT Contour 3, min bid 2000€ = no bids
FP4ATC Contour 3, min bid 3000€ = no bids
FP3ATC Contour 3, min bid 2500€ = no bids
FP4AT Contour 3, min bid 2000€ = no bids
FP2A Dialog 11, min bid 3000€ = no bids
FP4NC Dialog 11, min bid 4000€ = no bids
FP2A Dialog 11, min bid 3000€ = no bids

There were no bids for two Chiron FZ 12 S and W and 3000€. They looked NICE! wanna play...

3 Charmilles EDM got sold at 2000€ (2 of them sinkers mislabeled as wire, seller did not know difference).

Almost nothing got sold and there was only one bidding battle, which was for an EMCO 600 VMC (huge machine). It started at 6000€ and went for 13000€.

The whole auction thing is a scam in so far as people are thinking they are bidding on machines as they are pictured. In reality they are sitting 3 years in a warehouse far away taken apart. Not good for CNC. Then they are all labelled as "untested" by the auction house. So there is no responsibility/liability by anyone. The seller says it is what it is, the auction house never looked at anything and was never on location and says the same. Excuse: You could have looked at it before.

Lets see what happens next.

 

[Martin P]

To partially answer my own question:

The machines remain on contract with the auctioneer for another 3 months, I guess in theory to put a deal together, but in reality to probably do nothing.
Let's see, I am watching this one.

 

[jz79]

any chance for any of those size 12 Chirons getting scrapped by someone you know? I might be interested in Y rails if they are in good condition
factory rep from Poland replied with a 4500EUR price per set for my machine... and rails have reduced hole spacing, so off the shelf replacements of the same size can't be used

 

[Martin P]

Obviously I have no earthly idea, but just buy the whole machine.
I'd wait until it is no longer under contract with the twerps at Surplex.

▷ Vertikal-Bearbeitungszentrum: Jetzt gebraucht günstig kaufen

Vertikal-Bearbeitungszentren in Online-Auktion entdecken. ✅ Große Auswahl, faire Preise, Top-Qualität. Täglich neue Angebote. ➤ Jetzt günstig ersteigern!

www.surplex.com

▷ Vertikal-Bearbeitungszentrum: Jetzt gebraucht günstig kaufen

Vertikal-Bearbeitungszentren in Online-Auktion entdecken. ✅ Große Auswahl, faire Preise, Top-Qualität. Täglich neue Angebote. ➤ Jetzt günstig ersteigern!

www.surplex.com

I can get you in direct contact with the owner.
Actually I will be at his place to pick up a bandsaw on Saturday.

 

[Kees]

Lets see what happens next.

Looks like they try again with a new auction.

 

[Martin P]

Yes, they are starting over again.
Imagine how slack these outfits are.
They did not take the pictures, have never seen the machines or been on site. They do not guarantee anything or have any liability.
All they do is put the pictures on their site and let the time run down and charge 18%.
Even after that they still have months to try again or sell otherwise, so they are basically being paid for having a business opportunity.
For the older physical auctions I can see the auctioneer effort of going there, sorting stuff, making lots, researching, listing, publishing, organizing event and people.
Now they do almost nothing while keeping the same percentage and working from home and knowing nothing on the subject. Brilliant.

(I know for a fact that some machines have known defects or are incomplete. It would suck to buy a machine and then find cards missing in the control. "should have inspected")

 

[john.k]

if you want see auctioneers go stark raving mad ,do them out of their (imagined) comission on an unsold item.