Phonebooth size machine: Practical for job shop work?

[wehnelt]

I’m looking at either a speedio S300X2 or a fanuc S size Robodrill, and am wondering if they’re maybe a bit too limiting in size. Has anyone run one with a forth axis with some other fixturing on the table? Ideally I’d have a machine with a tool setter, a Kurt vice, and a 4th axis on the table. Maybe I need to remove the Kurt when using the 4th, but that’s not a huge deal to me. Is this just too small a machine to do this?

 

[LOTT]

Can you fit an S-500? I have a 4th and a 6" vise on one, and it's the absolute smallest table I'd consider viable. And that's with the 4th cantilevered off the table on a sub plate.

 

[mhajicek]

Not that specific machine, but I run two Haas CM-1's (12" x 10" work envelope), one of them often with a fourth, sometimes with a fifth.

 

[wehnelt]

Can you fit an S-500? I have a 4th and a 6" vise on one, and it's the absolute smallest table I'd consider viable. And that's with the 4th cantilevered off the table on a sub plate.

I can — it’s just that I’ve usually only found good deals on the S/300 size. But hey, money spent on a machine that’s not useful to me isn’t well spent…

 

[LOTT]

Weird, there's more S500's then S300's around.

When you say "job shop", your target market really defines the "right" size. A bunch of guys on here will say 40x20 is the minimum useful size. Obviously I disagree, but then mhajicek's CM-1's would be too small for my parts. So it's a really subjective question.

 

[vandytech]

What’s a phone booth?

You can do a fair amount on an S300; nice machine.

 

[gustafson]

A machine takes up more than its footprint, so a smaller machine is inefficient in that you still have a footprint that you must clear out and you lose the flexibility of a larger machine.
Useless, no but limited.
With a very fast machine you will find that having more parts on the table is useful as the cycle time drops on simple parts to un human levels

 

[Orange Vise]

Maybe I need to remove the Kurt when using the 4th, but that’s not a huge deal to me. Is this just too small a machine to do this?

If you're swapping them, the S300 is probably big enough. ~12" X travel (300mm).

Mounting a single vise isn't so bad, but mounting a rotary gets old quick. Easier just to get an S500 and leave both installed.

What kind of space constraints are you dealing with?

 

[Conrad Hoffman]

Always thought this was a good candidate for a small footprint machine- https://www.southwesternindustries.com/products/vertical-machining-centers/vmc2
Haven't used one.

 

[Stirling]

Unless you already know the jobber niche your going to target I would hesitate to get that small of a machine.
They are likely cheaper do to this exact fact. They are niche machines and less useful to the general shops purchasing in the used market.

Did n the flip side. Does it provide any unique benefits that will better help you serve a niche market vs a larger machine. A brother 500 or other brands? If not and you have enough space. I would be hard pressed to buy smaller unless your saving a bundle of cash you can use on other startup costs.

As said above swapping a vice in and out while the 4th hangs off the side is annoying but acceptable. Swapping a 4 is a pita if you do it often.

Bigger is almost always better unless smaller provides a needed capability the larger does not have

 

[Stirling]

Always thought this was a good candidate for a small footprint machine- https://www.southwesternindustries.com/products/vertical-machining-centers/vmc2
Haven't used one.

Plus is they are on wheels. No Leveling. Not required clearances to the walls (per say)
In the way push it….

Downside is it’s a far cry from a brother 300 when it comes to getting work done.

Defiantly a very cool/useful niece solution

 

[mhajicek]

A machine with a smaller work envelope will experience less thermal growth, since all the positioning members are smaller. If you're focusing on small parts that you can fit several of in a run, a small machine can still be quite productive.

 

[EmGo]

Always thought this was a good candidate for a small footprint machine-

It certainly appears that someone is buying something like this



putting their name on it and tripling the price ... or more.

Or even more that they are buying the basic machine, less sheetmetal and control, for about $5,000 and calling it their own.

Personally, I like the looks of the real thing better. Specs are better too.

 

[gkoenig]

Be aware - all the S300X2 machines are now gone. I literally had to disappoint a fine gentleman from here who was about to buy one of the 2 we had remaining on the clearance special, got him the quote, and 4 hours later, both of them were sold out from under us. Sad!

Also, my understanding is that the S300 isn't going to be a regularly stocked item anymore with the Xd1 series. We kept a handful around for the customers who *really* needed the extra floor space in mass-scale environments. Now that the S300 is crippled to 21 tools when the S500/S700 get 28, the math goes way out of favor on the S300. We will still import them, but only as special orders.

 

[LOTT]

If the OP wants a machine for job shop work, I'd suggest a 4020 as a minimum X and Y, and 28" in Z so you can get a 4th or 5th axis rotary underneath the spindle conveniantly

Just my 0.002c

I seem to have predicted this back in post #5....

 

[Vancbiker]

I seem to have predicted this back in post #5....

Yep, they always show up. I do jobshop work on my 16x12 machine. I just know when to send a customer somewhere else. I don’t want to to stuff bigger so don’t. I also pass on high quantity jobs so rarely do more than one part at a time.

Buy the machine that fits the work you are planning to do, not everything that might come in.

 

[Houdini]

There is a reason that a VF2 is the #1 selling size machine, so they say.
We've had 16", 20", 30", and 40" machines, and the most useable size we have seen is the 30" (VF2 size)
Only had 2-3 parts in 20+ years that needed the 40".
After having a 16" and a 20" I don't recommend buying anything under 20" (S500) ( 2 vises, or 1 with a 4th)
And currently don't have anything over 30" and I wont, why, because I don't like doing larger heavy work, that's not my jam.

but as mentioned, this all depends on the work your going to do, or the work your going after.
if you have no idea of that metric, you buy the largest machine you can fit and pay for.

I've even thought about a couple of these.

 

[DavidScott]

My experience for a small shop is if you can do everything you will do nothing better than everyone else. If you focus on a specific niche then you will do that better than most, which is something you need to do to thrive. The bigger machine will generally cost more to run and is slower, so if you don't need the size for that job you would have made more money with the smaller machine.

 

[Houdini]

My experience for a small shop is if you can do everything you will do nothing better than everyone else. If you focus on a specific niche then you will do that better than most, which is something you need to do to thrive. The bigger machine will generally cost more to run and is slower, so if you don't need the size for that job you would have made more money with the smaller machine.

Truth, have to set yourself apart.
I would rather have more spindles, than bigger spindles. More tables than bigger tables.
why, because I can do more customers different parts at the same time.

 

[wehnelt]

It certainly appears that someone is buying something like this

View attachment 417220

putting their name on it and tripling the price ... or more.

Or even more that they are buying the basic machine, less sheetmetal and control, for about $5,000 and calling it their own.

Personally, I like the looks of the real thing better. Specs are better too.

What machine is this