Production engine bearing assembly lube?

[Garwood]

I'm working on an accessory with plain bearings lubricated by an oil sump.

The application isn't very demanding, but I want to assemble the bearing surfaces with a lube that won't dry out if it sits on the shelf for years before it's run. Dried out grease could block the pressure lube passages.

When I search for engine bearing assembly lube I get lots of results, but they're not made for longer term storage situations.

Thoughts?

 

[eKretz]

I had a similar situation a couple times. I used this stuff and it worked fine. It's more like a grease with moly and won't run/squeeze out like the syrupy stuff.

 

[CarbideBob]

Do not know.
Can tell you that a mix of STP and white lithium grease is a magic lube.

 

[John Garner]

Lubriplate 105 is another good one for long-term storage.

 

[moonlight machine]

I had a similar situation a couple times. I used this stuff and it worked fine. It's more like a grease with moly and won't run/squeeze out like the syrupy stuff.

View attachment 389753

Looks like the same stuff that I like, HRL it's long gone now but I still have half a tube. I have wondered what I was going to use when it's gone but now I know.

 

[GregSY]

Well....long term storage is always a headache. Just look at King Tut. They went to extreme lengths to preserve him and he still failed to revive.

In addition to the above, I'd look at Royal Purple engine assembly lube. It's a synthetic lube that is pretty thick and sticky.

MAX-TUFF® | Royal Purple

Assembly Lubricant

www.royalpurple.com

But if it were me...I'd also require that prior to start, the engine be primed by spinning the oil pump ahead of time. Probably not possible, but...

 

[cg285]

back in my GM dealership days short blocks came with white grease which is what we always used

 

[eKretz]

But if it were me...I'd also require that prior to start, the engine be primed by spinning the oil pump ahead of time. Probably not possible, but...

Sure it's possible. That's how I've always done it. Not sure if you were being facetious.

That Royal Purple stuff is probably similar to the red Permatex assembly lube. I used to use that and a couple similar ones but only if engines were going together and getting fired up right away. Still runny, sort of like thick tacky syrup. The CRC stuff doesn't run at all. It's about like the consistency of LubriPlate (white lithium grease) but with moly.

 

[FredC]

Sure it's possible. That's how I've always done it. Not sure if you were being facetious.

I had a 64 Dodge with the 426MP engine. It had an oil cooler before I rebuilt it, so I wanted oil pressure as soon as it started. I pulled the distributer before it was started the first time and every oil change thereafter and pumped it up before starting. I just looked in my toolbox and the shaft with a socket pinned to the end is still there. It took less than a minute to get pressure with a 3/8 speed wrench. Today I usually pour oil into the oil filters before screwing them on, old habits are hard to quit.
In case any do not know what a 426 max wedge looks like here is a stock photo:

 

[jccaclimber]

I understand it's standard practice in some places, but seeing paint on pulleys and fasteners on engines always reminds me of people who do a Rustoleum Restoration on machinery.
When I was still in automotive we used some sort of phosphate coating on the aluminum side of aluminum/steel interfaces to protect for a second or two until oil pressure comes up.
Moly functions as a dry lubricant, just note that some moly lubricants are a few % moly and some are 40+% moly. I've never needed to worry about the details, but I'm guessing they don't behave the same.
White lithium grease tends to age well IME.
I'll bet Kluber makes some sort of lubricant designed to work in this sort of application, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it makes 600 Group repair parts look cheap.

 

[dkmc]

STP or Lucas thick goo additive? 85-140 gear oil?
I find it interesting that there are 100's of 'will it start' videos that feature engines sitting for years or decades, none of them get pre-lubed first and it all works out. If a new engine or bearing assembly is 'right' it should work just fine with a little residual motor oil left in the clearance. Motor oil isn't going to dry out and leave the bearings completely dry and ready to seize as soon as things begin to turn.

 

[jccaclimber]

STP or Lucas thick goo additive? 85-140 gear oil?
I find it interesting that there are 100's of 'will it start' videos that feature engines sitting for years or decades, none of them get pre-lubed first and it all works out. If a new engine or bearing assembly is 'right' it should work just fine with a little residual motor oil left in the clearance. Motor oil isn't going to dry out and leave the bearings completely dry and ready to seize as soon as things begin to turn.

It isn’t that nothing is damaged. It’s that the damage tends to be small and cumulative. Not world ending, but why risk it if a dab of grease can make it a non issue?
As for those startup videos, if they cause a bunch of blowby due to running rings over a rusty cylinder bore dry, lost a few % efficiency, or even start eating the mains you won’t know.
A SBC can be started with zero oil in it, but it doesn’t mean damage isn’t being done.

 

[eKretz]

Am old crusty rusty engine is one thing. A brand new assembly is another...

 

[dkmc]

I've rebuilt probably only 8 or 10 gas & diesel engines in my lifetime. Never used anything other than motor oil on the bearings. Never had any problems. Assembly lube is a 'feel good' potion mostly. If it makes you feel better, great.

Edit......on a new non-roller camshaft, mandatory.

 

[GregSY]

I wasn't being facetious...I don't know if you will even have access to the engines or if they will be out of your hands halfway around the world. The average Paki will read a 'prime oil pump' tag and instantly declare it unnecessary.

I've used drills to prime engines but even better is to use a speed wrench and spin it by hand. You can pretty easily create 40PSI by hand and it's less commotion.

The potential downside to using any sort of grease is that grease, over time, separates from its base and/or hardens. I've been told that grease is just oil mixed with clay....

So when you start the engine, the old grease won't be doing much lubrication, and eventually will (presumably) soften and find its way into the hot oil and be an added ingredient that you don't want in there. Even on engines I assembled with Lubriplate and started within days, I changed the run-in oil and filter soon after.

 

[eKretz]

I wasn't being facetious...I don't know if you will even have access to the engines or if they will be out of your hands halfway around the world. The average Paki will read a 'prime oil pump' tag and instantly declare it unnecessary.

I've used drills to prime engines but even better is to use a speed wrench and spin it by hand. You can pretty easily create 40PSI by hand and it's less commotion.

The potential downside to using any sort of grease is that grease, over time, separates from its base and/or hardens. I've been told that grease is just oil mixed with clay....

So when you start the engine, the old grease won't be doing much lubrication, and eventually will (presumably) soften and find its way into the hot oil and be an added ingredient that you don't want in there. Even on engines I assembled with Lubriplate and started within days, I changed the run-in oil and filter soon after.

Right. It's only there for an engine that will be sitting quite a while. Not necessary on an engine that will be started within the week. On startup or priming it will get pushed out right away by oil pressure. Then you change the oil right after break-in. It's not about "feel-good" in this case, it's about an extended period of sitting. You can use oil if you like. I'll stick with the CRC. Even for engines that won't be sitting I like the assembly lube because it's not as runny as oil. Until everything is broken in a little extra protection can't hurt. And it's not like the stuff is all that much more cost-wise than motor oil.

Edit: I asked a buddy of mine that does a lot of race engine building what he is using, he likes this stuff:



By happenstance, looks like pretty much the same stuff I like.

 

[dkmc]

Until everything is broken in a little extra protection can't hurt. And it's not like the stuff is all that much more cost-wise than motor oil.

How long until everything is 'broken in'? Because any goo put in the bearings at assembly is (hopefully) gone within seconds of achieving oil pressure. So its not there until everything is broken in. And if you're thinking a film of it mixed in with 4-5 quarts of oil is doing -anything- ......ah, not so much.
'Broken in' I think went out with the model A engines that needed to be run in on a stand using an electric motor because they were 'tight' due to limited semi-precision tolerances achievable back in the day. Since the 1960's if an engine was going to survive, it was 'good to go' and not much breaking in needed. Modern engines are quite precise and 'broken in' right from modern production line assembly tolerances.

 

[Mud]

I liked Michigan Bearing Guard, learned about it from the shop I got my Comp eliminator engine stuff from. We just dribbled it out of the bottle onto the bearing surfaces, smoothed it out with a finger and assembled the parts. I just googled it, seems to be renamed Clevite Bearing Guard. It's a thick oil, not a grease, it comes in 5 gallon pails so it must be pourable without thickeners, it's not tacky like way lube, just thick oil. I haven't looked into an engine assembled with it after years of cold storage so I can't vouch for that, but I'd bet money it's still oil and still in place after long storage.



I'm leery of putting moly in large quantity in an engine after what the moly grease experts have told me, it's a fine mineral and is considered a contaminant in cleanroom ops, can plug filters etc. If you do like moly, Mr Moly has some real good products that might apply, is very useful where scuffing is a problem like highly loaded rocker arms.

 

[eKretz]

How long until everything is 'broken in'? Because any goo put in the bearings at assembly is (hopefully) gone within seconds of achieving oil pressure. So its not there until everything is broken in. And if you're thinking a film of it mixed in with 4-5 quarts of oil is doing -anything- ......ah, not so much.
'Broken in' I think went out with the model A engines that needed to be run in on a stand using an electric motor because they were 'tight' due to limited semi-precision tolerances achievable back in the day. Since the 1960's if an engine was going to survive, it was 'good to go' and not much breaking in needed. Modern engines are quite precise and 'broken in' right from modern production line assembly tolerances.

I don't think breaking-in went anywhere. There are still many areas inside modern engines that get broken in during initial run-in. Ring surfaces for instance, etc. I really more or less meant start-up rather than break-in though. I think initially/originally assembly lube was useful for situations where oil wasn't preloaded by driving the pump before start-up. Old habits die hard.

Moly assembly lube/grease has a pretty minescule volume, I don't think it will play any significant role other than possibly for a few seconds during startup.

 

[dkmc]

I don't think breaking-in went anywhere. There are still many areas inside modern engines that get broken in during initial run-in. Ring surfaces for instance, etc. I really more or less meant start-up rather than break-in though. I think initially/originally assembly lube was useful for situations where oil wasn't preloaded by driving the pump before start-up. Old habits die hard.

Moly assembly lube/grease has a pretty minescule volume, I don't think it will play any significant role other than possibly for a few seconds during startup.

A lot of personal preference and industry induced need, maybe hype happens regularly with this subject. I disagree on modern engine break in. Especially ring/cylinder areas. Modern ring packages utilize very low RMA cylinder surface finishes, honed with diamond abrasives. The rings are essentially 'seated' from the factory. Yet there is still the recommended driving procedure for the first 500? miles. Mostly these days it's 'don't red line the engine for extended periods before xxx miles'. Older engine rebuild....who wouldn't spin it over without spark plugs/ injectors till the OP gauge registers? Not any good/ bad practice here, personal preference mostly, with thoughts of what's going on mechanically inside the assembly.