Stuff to focus on for a good machinist foundation?

[Ortekk]

So I've recently got hired at a RnD shop at a global company which works mainly on prepping equipment for testing and manufacturing smaller prototypes and other bits and bobs that the engineers and testing guys think up.
It's low volume, high mix, and a lot of work on existing parts with repair work thrown in on occation.

I was trained as a machinist 10 years ago, and have a big interest in the field, but it's the first time that I've been involved with machining in a professional setting, I ended up as a welder instead.
However I need to improve *quick* as my two collegues will retire in about 10 months. And in the absolute worst case leaving me alone to run the shop on my own. I'm talking everything from start to finish, handling the customer, programming, ordering tooling, using the machines etc. Almost like a private company, but without the economic risks.

Apart from the training I recieve from the old timers, what should I focus on to improve myself? Any tips and tricks that you wish you knew when starting out?

My collegues are very forthcoming and allow me basically free reign in the shop after I've proven to be competent and safe in handling the machines, and we're currently in a slow period so I'm standing at our CNC lathe and learning to program that, basically reprogramming old jobs, setting up/down the tooling and running the parts. I also rework some jobs manually in order to understand what jobs are quicker/easier to handle that way vs doing everything in the CNC. I'm basically 70% self running at this point (2 months in) and only ask (and get) advice whenever I'm unsure of what I'm doing (which is often). One of the guys are basically always at hand and is extremely helpful and gives pointers and advice whenever he sees something.

I'm willing to work quite a lot to get to a point where I'm confident that I can handle all of this on my own. But the shoes are big, and as one person it feels almost impossible to get to a level of competence where I'm comfortable in time for their retirement. I just want to avoid feeling like I've been thrown into the deep end.

Sorry if this is a bit of a rambling mess, but any and all advice is appreciated...

 

[Joe Gwinn]

As you likely already know, ten months is not enough to learn all that well enough.

I'd focus on the stuff you know least, what I'll call the "business" tasks. Quickest way to do this is to follow them around while they are doing these things.

There is also a good chance that those experts will become bored in retirement, so set up some kind of arrangement where you can hire their help as needed.

 

[Bill D]

How is it possible they will replace two experienced workers with one new one? Maybe one or both will want to work a few days a week to help out?
BilLD

 

[Donkey Hotey]

Learn a CAD program and get good at it. What are they using for their CAD stuff? What CAM software does the place use? What kind of CNCs? 90% of the future is going to be CNC and CAM. Even if you don't have CAM software, being able to draw something out on CAD and be able to pull all your dimensions from it is priceless.

 

[technocrat]

As well as focusing on the least you know also focus on the work the existing people do the most. Joe's other advice to follow them around is good, but get them to supervise you doing the job, the tricks and traps.

 

[John Garner]

I'm not a machinist, I've only put bread on my table working on the engineering side of the engineer-machinist interface. Based on that experience, I suggest that you study and learn the fundamental geometry of the common threadforms (Unified -- aka ISO Inch -- and ISO Metric) to the point that you can analytically derive 1) the Major Diameter, Pitch Diameter, and Minor Diameter of non-standard Diameter-Pitch combinations, 2) a Tap Drill Size for the J threadform without resorting to a handbook.

I'll also suggest you learn why internal J-form screwthreads can be cut with standard taps having the correct Diameter and Pitch.

Why? Because many (if not most) design engineers, inspectors, and machinists don't really understand these things, and that lack of understanding has repeatedly lead to delays, arguments, fingerpointing, and schedule delays.

 

[Ortekk]

As you likely already know, ten months is not enough to learn all that well enough.

I'd focus on the stuff you know least, what I'll call the "business" tasks. Quickest way to do this is to follow them around while they are doing these things.

There is also a good chance that those experts will become bored in retirement, so set up some kind of arrangement where you can hire their help as needed.

I'm following them as best I can, and they're making me do a lot of their stuff for them, with assistance, So that part is happening already.
I've been thinking this too, one of the guys are open to that idea, but the place we work at is closed off to the public, so he can't enter the shop without approval. So it will mainly be phone only. But that's better than nothing!

How is it possible they will replace two experienced workers with one new one? Maybe one or both will want to work a few days a week to help out?
BilLD

It's not, lol.
Just regular old assumption by management that it's "easy" to replace these guys. They've asked for a trainee for years, atleast I got a year with them.
Once they retire, getting into the workshop will be difficult, but I've been promised that they'll try and answer questions for me.

Learn a CAD program and get good at it. What are they using for their CAD stuff? What CAM software does the place use? What kind of CNCs? 90% of the future is going to be CNC and CAM. Even if you don't have CAM software, being able to draw something out on CAD and be able to pull all your dimensions from it is priceless.

I've used several different CAD programs in the past, so I know my way around them.
What do they use? Nothing. No CAM or CAD software...... However I'm pushing for this quite strongly, and it's in the works.
The machines use Siemens and Heidenhein, mainly focusing on the Doosan Lathe that runs on Siemens. And they have loads of manual machines that I'm working on as well.

I'm not a machinist, I've only put bread on my table working on the engineering side of the engineer-machinist interface. Based on that experience, I suggest that you study and learn the fundamental geometry of the common threadforms (Unified -- aka ISO Inch -- and ISO Metric) to the point that you can analytically derive 1) the Major Diameter, Pitch Diameter, and Minor Diameter of non-standard Diameter-Pitch combinations, 2) a Tap Drill Size for the J threadform without resorting to a handbook.

I'll also suggest you learn why internal J-form screwthreads can be cut with standard taps having the correct Diameter and Pitch.

Why? Because many (if not most) design engineers, inspectors, and machinists don't really understand these things, and that lack of understanding has repeatedly lead to delays, arguments, fingerpointing, and schedule delays.

I'll look into this, I've got a good feeling for this already having worked with hydraulic fittings for a few years, but only on an laymans level. So I'll see if there's a book on this in the shop somewhere.
I've already have had a discussion with an engineer that I can't make a "cheap press tool" for his niece's upcoming summer job... So I'll have fun with this in the future ^^

 

[Donkey Hotey]

So I've recently got hired at a RnD shop at a global company which works mainly on prepping equipment for testing and manufacturing smaller prototypes and other bits and bobs that the engineers and testing guys think up.
It's low volume, high mix, and a lot of work on existing parts with repair work thrown in on occation.

What do they use? Nothing. No CAM or CAD software...... However I'm pushing for this quite strongly, and it's in the works.

You work for a "global company" with engineers who prep, test and manufacture prototypes and they don't use CAD software? Run for your life. There is nothing redeemable about this company. You also have that many CNC machines and they don't use CAM? You will be worthless after five years in a place like that. Do they have flush toilets?

 

[Ortekk]

You work for a "global company" with engineers who prep, test and manufacture prototypes and they don't use CAD software? Run for your life. There is nothing redeemable about this company. You also have that many CNC machines and they don't use CAM? You will be worthless after five years in a place like that. Do they have flush toilets?

I can see what you mean, but honestly I'm not concerned. Why? It's xxx.
I'm working on implementing CAD CAM, and it's on its way. I'm going to work with TEBIS, as it's what's being used in other workshops like this at xxx. I'll receive training for it as well. (I was pushing for GibbsCam as our tooling is 99% Sandvik)

They were pushing for CAD CAM years ago, but was declined for "security" reasons. All jobs had to be delived on paper. The guys in the shop stopped bothering asking for it like 10 years ago. When cameras arrived on phones the entry guards smashed the lenses... So it's been quite extreme.

The boss responsible for this has retired, so things are getting easier. I already have a PC dedicated for the use of CAM, took the IT guys about 2 hours to deliver one.

 

[Donkey Hotey]

I would edit out the name of the company while you still can. I am shocked by what you've shared. I worked for one of the big US car manufacturers for a few years, over 40 years ago. They bought and then got rid of their CAD system in one of their advanced design studios and were going back to drafting boards. They said to me at the time that cars would never be designed on computers.

Yes, they were bumbling idiots but at least that was 40 years ago. I can't even imagine how stupid a place has to be to have made the decision yours has. The boss responsible for this should have been taken behind the building, beaten and fired. Find a new job. Your whole time there is going to be fighting to catch up to the 1990s.

 

[Ortekk]

I would edit out the name of the company while you still can. I am shocked by what you've shared. I worked for one of the big US car manufacturers for a few years, over 40 years ago. They bought and then got rid of their CAD system in one of their advanced design studios and were going back to drafting boards. They said to me at the time that cars would never be designed on computers.

Yes, they were bumbling idiots but at least that was 40 years ago. I can't even imagine how stupid a place has to be to have made the decision yours has. The boss responsible for this should have been taken behind the building, beaten and fired. Find a new job. Your whole time there is going to be fighting to catch up to the 1990s.

I'm with you that it's shocking, but I still think it's not that bad. Most of the stuff they've made here are for the testing rigs, mounting sensors and adjusting prototypes that wasn't designed correctly. Quite a lot of simple, easy parts.

The guys that do tooling and the proper advanced stuff have used CAM for decades.

I want to do more advanced stuff, and things are moving relatively quickly on the software implementation. Already have had discussions with the people in procurement.

And yes, I agree on how to treat that boss lol.

 

[Mtndew]

what should I focus on to improve myself? Any tips and tricks that you wish you knew when starting out?

Always single block all new programs, and especially after editing.
Use the Distance To Go on the position page while single blocking to visually see if you will crash or not.
And last but not least, carry a 6" scale in your shirt pocket so you can verify that you have enough distance to go without crashing.
You need to know where it's at, where it's going and how fast it's going to get there.

 

[Ortekk]

Always single block all new programs, and especially after editing.
Use the Distance To Go on the position page while single blocking to visually see if you will crash or not.
And last but not least, carry a 6" scale in your shirt pocket so you can verify that you have enough distance to go without crashing.
You need to know where it's at, where it's going and how fast it's going to get there.

Yup, already do single block, as well as 10mm offset on a few operations. Saved my ass earlier today from a crash! I was milling too close to the chuck, jaws would have smacked the tools when C-axis turned.
I run with reduced travel speeds for the first few parts as well. We don't do production so speed doesn't matter.
And I look on the distance left, but if I'm milling in the lathe it barely matters as I'm forced to run with coolant so I don't overheat the turret drive. I have it on/off so I can see something atleast.

We do have steel scales at every machine for checking if it looks a bit sketch, always use it when feeding the bar so I've pulled about the same amount of stock.

Programming and handling the machines is the easy part I find, I went to school for that ages ago. It's the thinking of how to machine, setup fixtures, measuring to make sure it's straight and all of that.
Sure I can program and set up the lathe for a simple mill turn operation, but if it's one part, is it worth it? Can I just throw it into the mill/drill and mill it straight and then put it into the manual lathe?

 

[John Garner]

Ortekk --

I've been on my "understanding screwthread geometry" soapbox for decades, having never seen what I consider an adequate textbook description since I single-pointed my first external screw in the late 1960s. A quick search of this site, using the search term "screwthread geometry" will turn up a dozen substantially-repetitive essays I've written on the subject.

I'll suggest you read a couple of those essays, and I'll try to answer any questions you might have.

Do note that, if I recall correctly, there's an error in one of these essays that I didn't discover until it was too late to edit the original posting. The correction notice is a few threads below the original.

John

 

[Joe Gwinn]

I'm following them as best I can, and they're making me do a lot of their stuff for them, with assistance, So that part is happening already.
I've been thinking this too, one of the guys are open to that idea, but the place we work at is closed off to the public, so he can't enter the shop without approval. So it will mainly be phone only. But that's better than nothing!

These old-timers have been on the inside for decades, so what is it that they will learn if allowed back in? So when you suggest hiring these guys to help, that approval must also be granted as a part of the package.

Do they ever fire anybody? If no, they'll let you muddle along, it seems.

If yes, they have put you in an impossible position, so if this is not granted in full, you might wish to be updating your resume.