Should I stay or should I go? Advice on employment situation / Just need to vent

[Rough-cutter]

Maybe I just need to vent, but here we go.

My current employment situation:
I have worked for a large corporation as a machinist/sheet metal fabricator for over a decade. About 5 years ago they shut down our entire fabrication department. Luckily we had enough people retire/quit that no one was truly laid off. However we all had to apply for jobs with in the company, all of which were at significantly lower pay. This facility still has assembly and electronics manufacturing in house. So I was able to get one of these lower paying assembly jobs. With in a few months I realized this was not for me. Assembly line work is not like fabrication work. I looked for jobs.

I found a job within the company that was in a small R&D Lab. I am now considered "Salary" even though I still get paid hourly. This job is fantastic and I am very fortunate to have it. I am a one man shop. Making prototypes, test equipment, fixtures, product modifications etc. I get to challenge myself and am growing in other aspects of machine shop management as I am handling everything my self.

The negatives of this job.
1. I work completely alone. Anyone on my "Team" are all electronics people and quite frankly barely know of to use a screw driver properly. I do not interact with them much at all. I mostly interact with engineers who are mostly clueless when it comes to machining/manufacturing as well. They treat me like any other vendor. Send me a part#, or design, or rough sketch, and I make it for them. I have no real peers or anyone to learn anything from. This extends to management as well. They barely know the difference between a lathe and a mill. They truly have no idea what it takes to do what I do. All they knew is that I worked in the fab department so I should be able to handle the job. And I can. Frankly I often feel over qualified.

2. While the money is good, it is not as much as I was making in the old department that got shut down. This job demands much more responsibility, skill, and stress than my old one that paid more. But anytime I talk about this with my bosses, they make it seem like I am paid more than most of the people in my "Team". And yes I have explained to them that those on my "Team" are not machinist of any kind, thus not paid as such. I even explain to management how I have added value to this role. My predecessor was a manual machinist and did not really know how to program cnc. I use cad / cam software and have increased output significantly.

3. Along with my personal finances. The company or at least my department does not seem to be doing well. This is a huge corporation and they can just take funding from one area and move it to another however they see fit. I have always complained that the shop I have is bare minimum. We have a cnc mill but it is slow. 4000 max rpm 200 IPM rapids (but probably never accelerates to that) 2 hp spindle. We have a mid size manual lathe, a drill press, a small hand brake(can only bend up to .063"thk material), vertical band saw and that is it. I provide all my own hand tools and measuring tools.
Anytime I ask for funds to upgrade equipment the answer is we want to reduce cost as much as possible. They do not seem concerned about increasing capability or investing in the shop in anyway.
This is just my shop. The department as a whole has been doing cost cutting measures of all kinds. Lower raise budgets, cutting all moral funding, We were furloughed on random Fridays a couple of years ago which reduced our overall pay by 10%. That was only for one year and have since gotten that back. But the cost cutting continues. Most recently I found out they are looking at reducing personnel. While I feel relatively safe as I am the only one here that does what I do. I also feel like a target because I am a cost that can be out sourced. And they do out source. When I am too busy they often use Xeometry or other shops and I cannot compete with what I have. I am forced to charge a shop rate of $102/ hr. that is our overhead (due to top heavy high management salaries in my opinion, seriously these guys make millions) and with the equipment I have I cannot compete on price most of the time.

4. Working for a large corporation. With this talk of reducing personnel, I was told that anyone who has used 40 hours or more of sick time this year was brought up on a list to be discussed for cutting. This is out of the 56 hrs of federally protected sick leave. I understand they need a way to weed out the non hackers and luckily I have not used much sick time. But for those who did, they had no idea that using 40 hrs of sick time would result in them being considered for termination. When I heard of this I told them they need to clearly set the expectations and that is not in anyway fair. Like you could have a terrible employee who never calls in sick and they never even get considered for termination. While a good employee who had a bad year, maybe sick kids or other issues but still does well and gets their work done. Get put on a list for possible termination. I was told they did not even consult management about this. It was decided by a higher level director to create this list (Those who increase our overhead I was talking about).
Another issue I have with how they decide if you are needed is if you "Run out of work". As I said. I do things multiple times faster than my predecessor due to utilizing technology. They have no way of measuring how much we do (or at least they don't want to try). They just highlight when we might not have work. The boss has suggested that I help the electronics people on my team when I am low on work. I don't know much about electronics and frankly am not interested in doing anything like that. So I am forced to sort of drag my feet sometimes to appear to be busy and needed. Other times I am too busy and not sure how a one man shop can do it all. The work is not constant. Also they are forcing other duties on us like administrative computer type work. I am not sure what it is yet but am told it is coming.

So my question is, should I stay or should I go?
The problem is that the company is not wrong when it comes to my pay. While I do not make as much as I did. I dont think getting a new job as a machinist, even a cnc programmer would pay me over $35/ hr and I make more than that now. So yes I know I have nothing to complain about when it comes to my pay. My bigger issue is working for people who do not know how to run the place.
I constantly feel like at any time they will just decide they do not need our little machine shop any more and I will be out on my ass. Before when I got another job in the company, I was union. I had some sonority. I have given all of that up and feel like the last Mohican. I think my plan is to save as much $ as possible. Sharpen my resume. and ignore the corporate B.S. although that is hard sometimes. The things they do to make a $ are just not right.
Any and all advice is greatly appreciated. I realize this is just a whiney vent / rant. I am very fortunate. I just have no one to talk to about all of this. As I said I am non union now and it is every man for himself around here. I am just lucky non of these people know how to cut metal or I would probably already be out.

 

[CatMan]

You don't sound happy. And it seems the company doesn't support you.

I'd start looking.

 

[jaguar36]

Never hurts to look (well almost never). Poke around and see what else is out there. You may find that you've got the best there is already. No job is perfect. Working for a big corporation has its downsides as you are aware, but it has its upsides too as you found when you didn't lose your job when they closed up your last job.

You can also try reaching out to other folks at different sites within your company that have similar job. Most big companies have an internal directory where you can find people based on job role. Collaborate with them, find out what they can't do that you can and what they can do that you can't. Form a "Rapid Prototyping Center of Excellence" or some such bullshit. Rather than just act as a Xometery for the engineers, spend more time interacting with them, helping them make more manufacturable parts. Sure some engineers don't care, and don't want your help, but a large percentage of them will love to get some guidance on how to design better parts. A bunch of them would probably also love to come down and learn more about how stuff is made. Pitch a class to your management for the engineers on machining, or fasteners, or whatever you mostly do.

If you get to know the folks sending you work, and show them why you are valuable they're much less likely to decide to close your shop.

 

[Clive603]

Yep. Keep your resume polished up and look for a better hole to jump into.

As management doesn't have a clue consider "making" time to do a bit of self education to improve your resume. It's also worth getting your head round the actual finances of your little shop, proper depreciation to apply et al and compare that to how management does things. Understanding that may protect you from jumping into a "better 'ole" that is actually a layer of pretty tinsel over deep doo-doo.

With the inevitable control of your personal situation you have in a one man, only guy who can do it, shop you will be surprised just how much management crap you can put up with provided the pay is OK and the heating still works! As you know 90% of management yatter is hot air. Never underestimate the ability of management to accept the right noises whilst you get on with doing what you always did. Did that for 20 odd years!

Getting pushed into admin computer work could be a blessing. Bit more string to your bow. Looks like your better 'ole should be running a small shop inside a bigger firm and admin computer skills will help.

Similar situation I elected to ride things down until redundancy which worked out very well indeed. UK Ministry of Defence Establishment. I made out like a bandit!

 

[ttrager]

IMO, for whatever it's worth, in reading your post I seem to get the following sense:

Stay (for now), but use the Pro's of your current situation as the safety net to start looking for a better opportunity - but keep it to yourself.

This gives you a relatively secure grace period within which to scout out a happier place. And if you "never" find a happier place, including pay, you are no worse off than you are right now.

What's a mess is when you show up to work one day and you are fired/laid off and it's only THEN you start scrambling for a new job.

 

[APW]

You sound like you're done with the place. You've probably been there too long and are a little scared to jump ship. My dad was in the same place. When he started working as a machinist the company was great. Great pay at the time, bonuses, profit sharing, 401k match. Slowly things changed to the point that machines were trash (owner wanted him to hand load cat 50 holders by hand because he didnt want to fix the tool changer arm), he didnt get a pay increase in over 7 years, some weeks he got sent home because there wasnt enough work to keep him busy 40 hours, owner didnt want to replace worn out tools etc. I asked him once if he was applying to the job he had now and knew he'd be dealing with the things he deals with now would he take it? The obvious answer was no but still couldn't make the leap and leave the company. I told him the metaphore/analogy I read once about the frog that gets thrown in a pot of boiling water and obviously jumps out of the water immediately but if you put the frog in cool water and slowing bring it to a boil the frog won't jump out. I don't know if that's accurate or not but he understood what I meant. It sucked to watch him be miserable 8 hours per day.

The company is already outsourcing to xometry so they already have your replacement. I'd start looking brother.

 

[Covenant MFG]

It's a good idea for a career strategy to always be looking. Even when you're completely happy and content. Talk to other machinists, get involved in social media if that's your thing, and on here etc.

People in the trades (especially this one) complain about their pay or working conditions and yet are convinced that it's disrespectful to ask for a raise or have some sort of sense of "loyalty". Every employee is their own small business, just with only one customer. All businesses should be looking for better customers and ways to increase the benefits they get from providing a service.

 

[Rough-cutter]

Never hurts to look (well almost never). Poke around and see what else is out there. You may find that you've got the best there is already. No job is perfect. Working for a big corporation has its downsides as you are aware, but it has its upsides too as you found when you didn't lose your job when they closed up your last job.

You can also try reaching out to other folks at different sites within your company that have similar job. Most big companies have an internal directory where you can find people based on job role. Collaborate with them, find out what they can't do that you can and what they can do that you can't. Form a "Rapid Prototyping Center of Excellence" or some such bullshit. Rather than just act as a Xometery for the engineers, spend more time interacting with them, helping them make more manufacturable parts. Sure some engineers don't care, and don't want your help, but a large percentage of them will love to get some guidance on how to design better parts. A bunch of them would probably also love to come down and learn more about how stuff is made. Pitch a class to your management for the engineers on machining, or fasteners, or whatever you mostly do.

If you get to know the folks sending you work, and show them why you are valuable they're much less likely to decide to close your shop.

Thank you for the advice and support. Greatly appreciated.

1. I have tried to reach out to others that have a similar job. ( there are few and far between. Literaly 2 other small shops like my self. way off in other buildings that I don't get to go to. The problem is that they are in different departments. Different funding. They are all trying to survive as well. Hording work. And we are what they call direct charge employees. We are salary but must charge out time to specific projects. When I have tried to reach out. I was basically told worry about your own shop and stay on your own work. No time for collaboration (for direct charge employees). I think they would like to keep us separate and invisible to one another.

2. spending more time with mechanical or design engineers would be good. Most of them work from home now. I have been able to spend some time with a few but again. no one has time. I in fact did create a power point on some high level overview of how machining works but was told we don't have time / money / or need to spend on that. Must keep working directly on the projects. And as far as them noticing I am valuable. I think they do. But the people who decide things never communicate with those engineers that I support. They are part of other groups under different management. So the people/ projects I support are basically invisible to the management that runs my department. And the projects I support would not want to take on the cost to move me under their department (Just want to use me when they need me but they don't need me all the time). I am what is known as a shared service I support several departments and groups that have nothing to do with each other.

 

[Rough-cutter]

You sound like you're done with the place. You've probably been there too long and are a little scared to jump ship. My dad was in the same place. When he started working as a machinist the company was great. Great pay at the time, bonuses, profit sharing, 401k match. Slowly things changed to the point that machines were trash (owner wanted him to hand load cat 50 holders by hand because he didnt want to fix the tool changer arm), he didnt get a pay increase in over 7 years, some weeks he got sent home because there wasnt enough work to keep him busy 40 hours, owner didnt want to replace worn out tools etc. I asked him once if he was applying to the job he had now and knew he'd be dealing with the things he deals with now would he take it? The obvious answer was no but still couldn't make the leap and leave the company. I told him the metaphore/analogy I read once about the frog that gets thrown in a pot of boiling water and obviously jumps out of the water immediately but if you put the frog in cool water and slowing bring it to a boil the frog won't jump out. I don't know if that's accurate or not but he understood what I meant. It sucked to watch him be miserable 8 hours per day.

The company is already outsourcing to xometry so they already have your replacement. I'd start looking brother.

100% agree. I have told the story of the frog in boiling water here at work. First pensions dis appeared. Then benefits cost went up. Then Bonuses dried up. Then promotions and off cycle raises dried up. Then yearly cost of living increases lowered. Then work started moving to other sites over seas and within the states. Then more restrictions on sick time usage. ect..... Over the last 10 years everything has just gone down hill for the workers. IMO the only people happy to work here, have been hear less than 5 years. I have shared another saying here at work, "Comparison is the thief of joy." Like we do have it pretty good. But by comparison those of us who have been here longer know we definitely use to have it better.

And yes I have discussed the use of xeometry and how it will kill the need for me. The response has been that sometimes even xeometry cannot get it to us fast enough. That is where my real value is. But again. Those who make the decisions are not aware of this.

 

[Rough-cutter]

Thank you all for the support and advice. Just needed to vent I guess. I do need to work on being positive and proactive. I think I am going to start applying just to see what happens. And if I cant get the pay I want. Then just stay where I am. Yes I can put up with a lot of corporate B.S. if they just leave me out of it.

Un happy where I am. Sure. Unfortunately I was raised working class. We were taught that your job does not make you happy. Do what you must in order to live the best you can. Sad part is. I do love the work. Milling, making, figuring, designing. I enjoy the work. All I ask is a little job security and maybe a reasonable budget to invest in what I do to remain relevant and competitive. But that might be too much to ask in todays economy.

 

[Stirling]

stack cash in the savings account.
That gives you security and options

Polish the resume

Otherwise. It don’t sound to bad as long as you can turn off your “worry genes” and just show up and work
Sounds like a decent retirement gig if you’re willing to look last some crap
And if u get canned you got cash in savings (a year or more preferred)

 

[john.k]

I think the simplest fact to consider is when you work for wages under state law ,the employer is legally bound to pay you, on time .

 

[Freedommachine]

And if I cant get the pay I want. Then just stay where I am. Yes I can put up with a lot of corporate B.S. if they just leave me out of it.

It sounds like you could benefit from studying the art of persuasion.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People

 

[Rough-cutter]

stack cash in the savings account.
That gives you security and options

Polish the resume

Otherwise. It don’t sound to bad as long as you can turn off your “worry genes” and just show up and work
Sounds like a decent retirement gig if you’re willing to look last some crap
And if u get canned you got cash in savings (a year or more preferred)

Agreed, it is a good retirement gig. Issue is that I have kids to feed and a mortgage. When I am closer to retirement I wont have those worries. But you are right. Money buys freedom. I need to get more aggressive on stacking cash into savings. I have a plan to get the house paid off with in 10 years. That day cant come soon enough. So basically If I can make it another 10 years. Then all my kids will be grown. No debt, No mortgage. Decent 401K and Roth IRA .

Then I will stroll without a care in the world. But I need to remember that life is a journey and it can all end any day. Need to remember to enjoy the now. And I am not sure why I worry so much. I have known people that have been laid off and it always seems to be the best thing to happen to them.

Thanks for the words of wisdom.

 

[gustafson]

If there was a time to be looking for a job, this is it. You are still making less than you were years ago? Move on.
You have multiple skills and will do fine somewhere else
Will it be as challenging or intellectually stimulating? Maybe, maybe not
You are unhappy
I think you will be less unhappy if you are making more money, no matter what the job is
One cannot predict the future, hell understanding the past is almost impossible.
Know that you next job may not be your last job and you need to look out for you and yours.

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

I've been in your shoes.
Firstly, I'd start looking, you never know what could pop up.
I'd build a network too. Tool sales folk, machine sales, raw materials, LinkedIn, this site, other career sites.
You're worth more than $30/hr.
You can work by yourself unsupervised.
You could go on your own, and do work for your former company. Probably bill at a higher rate than your getting paid and still get the work.
Just a thought.

 

[MwTech Inc]

Simple as this.......we only get one shot at life.
You either go thru it miserable and frustrated or not......you need to make the choice.

 

[tim9lives]

Maybe I just need to vent, but here we go.

My current employment situation:
I have worked for a large corporation as a machinist/sheet metal fabricator for over a decade. About 5 years ago they shut down our entire fabrication department. Luckily we had enough people retire/quit that no one was truly laid off. However we all had to apply for jobs with in the company, all of which were at significantly lower pay. This facility still has assembly and electronics manufacturing in house. So I was able to get one of these lower paying assembly jobs. With in a few months I realized this was not for me. Assembly line work is not like fabrication work. I looked for jobs.

I found a job within the company that was in a small R&D Lab. I am now considered "Salary" even though I still get paid hourly. This job is fantastic and I am very fortunate to have it. I am a one man shop. Making prototypes, test equipment, fixtures, product modifications etc. I get to challenge myself and am growing in other aspects of machine shop management as I am handling everything my self.

The negatives of this job.
1. I work completely alone. Anyone on my "Team" are all electronics people and quite frankly barely know of to use a screw driver properly. I do not interact with them much at all. I mostly interact with engineers who are mostly clueless when it comes to machining/manufacturing as well. They treat me like any other vendor. Send me a part#, or design, or rough sketch, and I make it for them. I have no real peers or anyone to learn anything from. This extends to management as well. They barely know the difference between a lathe and a mill. They truly have no idea what it takes to do what I do. All they knew is that I worked in the fab department so I should be able to handle the job. And I can. Frankly I often feel over qualified.

2. While the money is good, it is not as much as I was making in the old department that got shut down. This job demands much more responsibility, skill, and stress than my old one that paid more. But anytime I talk about this with my bosses, they make it seem like I am paid more than most of the people in my "Team". And yes I have explained to them that those on my "Team" are not machinist of any kind, thus not paid as such. I even explain to management how I have added value to this role. My predecessor was a manual machinist and did not really know how to program cnc. I use cad / cam software and have increased output significantly.

3. Along with my personal finances. The company or at least my department does not seem to be doing well. This is a huge corporation and they can just take funding from one area and move it to another however they see fit. I have always complained that the shop I have is bare minimum. We have a cnc mill but it is slow. 4000 max rpm 200 IPM rapids (but probably never accelerates to that) 2 hp spindle. We have a mid size manual lathe, a drill press, a small hand brake(can only bend up to .063"thk material), vertical band saw and that is it. I provide all my own hand tools and measuring tools.
Anytime I ask for funds to upgrade equipment the answer is we want to reduce cost as much as possible. They do not seem concerned about increasing capability or investing in the shop in anyway.
This is just my shop. The department as a whole has been doing cost cutting measures of all kinds. Lower raise budgets, cutting all moral funding, We were furloughed on random Fridays a couple of years ago which reduced our overall pay by 10%. That was only for one year and have since gotten that back. But the cost cutting continues. Most recently I found out they are looking at reducing personnel. While I feel relatively safe as I am the only one here that does what I do. I also feel like a target because I am a cost that can be out sourced. And they do out source. When I am too busy they often use Xeometry or other shops and I cannot compete with what I have. I am forced to charge a shop rate of $102/ hr. that is our overhead (due to top heavy high management salaries in my opinion, seriously these guys make millions) and with the equipment I have I cannot compete on price most of the time.

4. Working for a large corporation. With this talk of reducing personnel, I was told that anyone who has used 40 hours or more of sick time this year was brought up on a list to be discussed for cutting. This is out of the 56 hrs of federally protected sick leave. I understand they need a way to weed out the non hackers and luckily I have not used much sick time. But for those who did, they had no idea that using 40 hrs of sick time would result in them being considered for termination. When I heard of this I told them they need to clearly set the expectations and that is not in anyway fair. Like you could have a terrible employee who never calls in sick and they never even get considered for termination. While a good employee who had a bad year, maybe sick kids or other issues but still does well and gets their work done. Get put on a list for possible termination. I was told they did not even consult management about this. It was decided by a higher level director to create this list (Those who increase our overhead I was talking about).
Another issue I have with how they decide if you are needed is if you "Run out of work". As I said. I do things multiple times faster than my predecessor due to utilizing technology. They have no way of measuring how much we do (or at least they don't want to try). They just highlight when we might not have work. The boss has suggested that I help the electronics people on my team when I am low on work. I don't know much about electronics and frankly am not interested in doing anything like that. So I am forced to sort of drag my feet sometimes to appear to be busy and needed. Other times I am too busy and not sure how a one man shop can do it all. The work is not constant. Also they are forcing other duties on us like administrative computer type work. I am not sure what it is yet but am told it is coming.

So my question is, should I stay or should I go?
The problem is that the company is not wrong when it comes to my pay. While I do not make as much as I did. I dont think getting a new job as a machinist, even a cnc programmer would pay me over $35/ hr and I make more than that now. So yes I know I have nothing to complain about when it comes to my pay. My bigger issue is working for people who do not know how to run the place.
I constantly feel like at any time they will just decide they do not need our little machine shop any more and I will be out on my ass. Before when I got another job in the company, I was union. I had some sonority. I have given all of that up and feel like the last Mohican. I think my plan is to save as much $ as possible. Sharpen my resume. and ignore the corporate B.S. although that is hard sometimes. The things they do to make a $ are just not right.
Any and all advice is greatly appreciated. I realize this is just a whiney vent / rant. I am very fortunate. I just have no one to talk to about all of this. As I said I am non union now and it is every man for himself around here. I am just lucky non of these people know how to cut metal or I would probably already be out.

I'm going to reply before I even read the rest of this thread. From what you mentioned about the sick pay policy tells me that management of this company sucks. A bunch a fricking bean counters who don't know shit from Shinola.
Doesn't matter how big they are. What they are is a poorly run company which makes horrible business policy and moves using the easiest formula they can come up with. So if a fantastic 25 year employee got hurt while working at the company.... didn't sue them.... but used up 45 hours of sick time going to doctors, they cut him over the lazy useless employee.
Horrible lazy management. Reminds me of Sears and Roebuck. They were one of the first 3 investors in the Internet along with ATT and AOL. Yet Sears management could't figure out how to morph into Amazon.

Amazon is just a modern day Sears IN MY OPINION that also delivers. Sears management was so afraid of hurting their brick and mortar business that they could not envision the benefit of delivering evrything under the sun. Sears had everything they needed to slaughter Bezos and Amazon....But Sears had old tired and lazy management. Sears did not know shit from Shinola.

 

[tim9lives]

It's a good idea for a career strategy to always be looking. Even when you're completely happy and content. Talk to other machinists, get involved in social media if that's your thing, and on here etc.

People in the trades (especially this one) complain about their pay or working conditions and yet are convinced that it's disrespectful to ask for a raise or have some sort of sense of "loyalty". Every employee is their own small business, just with only one customer. All businesses should be looking for better customers and ways to increase the benefits they get from providing a service.

I think that being happy at work is almost more important than the pay. If the pay is moderate but the workplace is spectacular, then that is better than a bad shop environment with backstabbers working next to you or even working by yourself with good pay.
Working alone is almost like being sent to work in the basement storage facility. Its can be like a punishment for some personalities.
I like the company of my working companions. Providing of course if they are good people. I quit my last job because someone started stealing my tools every week. And I still liked most everyone. But I also knew that there were a couple of scum bags since my tools were disappearing every week.

It's not always about the pay in my opinion. The pay was fine.

 

[Jatrox]

I was in a very similar situation running tool & die for a big company. I loved my job. Every day more hats were thrown my way without any monetary comp, which was fine until the company was sold to a company that was bigger yet and everything started to go down hill at a faster rate. People were promoted to management roles that had no business even working an entry level job in that department. Bad ideas implemented without any thinking it through or discussion made the work environment hostile and the moral tanked.

I started looking, saved, bit my tongue and worked through every situation keeping the pride in my work. Then one day I was asked to set aside my morals and do some shady shit to "hurry up and get the parts done". I made a call to accept a job offer that paid more and had MUCH less responsibility, and gave my 2 weeks as soon as I was off the phone. No, I did not do the shady shit they asked me to do.

Everyone has a different tolerance for the corporate b/s. Gotta make a plan that's right for you and that includes having a line in the sand. I didn't want to quit that job and to be honest, I wasn't prepared to quit. But once that line was crossed, my line, I was out. It's not worth sticking around a situation that's eventually going to bring your moral down and they could care less what warm body is standing in your place. The corporate world all runs the same. The CEOs all get together and discuss new strategies which is where all the bad ideas come from. That part will never change.