Should I stay or should I go? Advice on employment situation / Just need to vent

[john.k]

I had tool replacement in my contract ......Id get my el cheapo stuff stolen,and buy the best on the company account .......(probably more often lost or broken)

 

[MCritchley]

Sounds like your employer is Warren Buffet or a Private equity firm. Nothing will change, bail in due course.

 

[john.k]

Id wonder what would happen if the CNC machining centre broke down and was considered U/R.............seems like the job couldnt be done without it.

 

[1967MM]

I didnt see your location which affects pay ALOT. $35 / hr isnt a tough number to beat for someone with experience in many markets. Some prefer larger companies and others prefer smaller shops. I prefer midsize shops.
Whatever your preferences are you need to identify them and use this time (while being employed) to search for the BEST jobs available.
Many places have shops that most of us never consider...I ran into a guy a few years ago that was the lead of the machining department at a museum....they did alot of manual machining creating the framework to support displays.....sounded kinda cool. The point is...dont limit your search to the obvious manufacturing companies.
Colleges will often have machine shops in their maintenance facilities....a guy i went to tech school with has been machining for a college for 30+ years now.....it has its drawbacks....but overall its a good gig.

 

[gmc1724]

As soon as you were asked to reapply for your old job for less pay that was the time to look for another job. Companies that treat you like this aren't worthy of your skills.

 

[Stirling]

Agreed, it is a good retirement gig. Issue is that I have kids to feed and a mortgage. When I am closer to retirement I wont have those worries. But you are right. Money buys freedom. I need to get more aggressive on stacking cash into savings. I have a plan to get the house paid off with in 10 years. That day cant come soon enough. So basically If I can make it another 10 years. Then all my kids will be grown. No debt, No mortgage. Decent 401K and Roth IRA .

Then I will stroll without a care in the world. But I need to remember that life is a journey and it can all end any day. Need to remember to enjoy the now. And I am not sure why I worry so much. I have known people that have been laid off and it always seems to be the best thing to happen to them.

Thanks for the words of wisdom.

You have kids and a mortgage…. I feel ya there, but remember. You said the pay is pretty good. Not top dollar, but better than most out there correct?
So unless your willing to stick your neck out for a new job (not always greener on the other side) or find another way to make cash (side hussle?) then consider yourself a fixed income. And not a bad one by the sounds of it

It’s very easy to spiral into a pit of worry, expecially when things are tight and savings are low.

Again. Stack CASH into savings.
It’s nice to beat the mortgage/debt down with every spare buck. And it saves money…. But then if you get laid off you got no reserve either… there is just something to be said for having a spare $20,000 lying around.
I carry a heavy savings in the account. Is it financially stupid? You fucking bet. But I sleep well at night knowing if something goes totally sideways I got a long segment of time to sort it out while not needing to adjust my lifestyle significantly.
Keeps the wife happy to knowing when I do something questionable business wise she knows it won’t effect us personally.
(Wait where did that new lathe come from?)

Savings is security. (And low debt)
Once you have savings you can risk the rest to make more money. Change jobs. Move states. Whatever u wanna try to better your family.

Take some time to relax and re evaluate the situation. Maybe it’s actually not that bad

 

[Rough-cutter]

I was in a very similar situation running tool & die for a big company. I loved my job. Every day more hats were thrown my way without any monetary comp, which was fine until the company was sold to a company that was bigger yet and everything started to go down hill at a faster rate. People were promoted to management roles that had no business even working an entry level job in that department. Bad ideas implemented without any thinking it through or discussion made the work environment hostile and the moral tanked.

I started looking, saved, bit my tongue and worked through every situation keeping the pride in my work. Then one day I was asked to set aside my morals and do some shady shit to "hurry up and get the parts done". I made a call to accept a job offer that paid more and had MUCH less responsibility, and gave my 2 weeks as soon as I was off the phone. No, I did not do the shady shit they asked me to do.

Everyone has a different tolerance for the corporate b/s. Gotta make a plan that's right for you and that includes having a line in the sand. I didn't want to quit that job and to be honest, I wasn't prepared to quit. But once that line was crossed, my line, I was out. It's not worth sticking around a situation that's eventually going to bring your moral down and they could care less what warm body is standing in your place. The corporate world all runs the same. The CEOs all get together and discuss new strategies which is where all the bad ideas come from. That part will never change.

Good for you, luckily I have never been asked to do anything shady. I am with you there. Never compromise your morals. Although where I am they do play a bit with how to charge time. See the bosses want all the time charged to the job. But the projects don't want to pay for your time to do other things. Like quote a different job that did not give you anything to charge to etc.. but I just do what I know is right and let them fight about it.

 

[Rough-cutter]

I've been in your shoes.
Firstly, I'd start looking, you never know what could pop up.
I'd build a network too. Tool sales folk, machine sales, raw materials, LinkedIn, this site, other career sites.
You're worth more than $30/hr.
You can work by yourself unsupervised.
You could go on your own, and do work for your former company. Probably bill at a higher rate than your getting paid and still get the work.
Just a thought.

Currently I am @ $40/hr. If my old department had not closed. I would be at $45/ hr with less responsibility and skills required. Yes it was a union job. but the savings by moving to non union and not paying dues was immediately eaten up by much high health insurance cost.

I have thought of starting out my self in my garage or something. Maybe invest like $100k business loan into a decent hass and some tooling. But to make $40/hr or even $80,000 / yr plus benefits, I am not sure I can pull off at least not at first. But maybe I should just start small and do nights an weekends and see what I could do. But in that sincario , if I were to get work at my home business from my employer company. Then I would be taking work away from my self. and working nights at work would pay time and a half. So I would steer clear of doing any work for the company I already work for. Unless i am thinking about that all wrong.

 

[Rough-cutter]

You have kids and a mortgage…. I feel ya there, but remember. You said the pay is pretty good. Not top dollar, but better than most out there correct?
So unless your willing to stick your neck out for a new job (not always greener on the other side) or find another way to make cash (side hussle?) then consider yourself a fixed income. And not a bad one by the sounds of it

It’s very easy to spiral into a pit of worry, expecially when things are tight and savings are low.

Again. Stack CASH into savings.
It’s nice to beat the mortgage/debt down with every spare buck. And it saves money…. But then if you get laid off you got no reserve either… there is just something to be said for having a spare $20,000 lying around.
I carry a heavy savings in the account. Is it financially stupid? You fucking bet. But I sleep well at night knowing if something goes totally sideways I got a long segment of time to sort it out while not needing to adjust my lifestyle significantly.
Keeps the wife happy to knowing when I do something questionable business wise she knows it won’t effect us personally.
(Wait where did that new lathe come from?)

Savings is security. (And low debt)
Once you have savings you can risk the rest to make more money. Change jobs. Move states. Whatever u wanna try to better your family.

Take some time to relax and re evaluate the situation. Maybe it’s actually not that bad

You are right, it is not that bad. Just need that security. $20K in the bank would be nice. Im getting there. I got about $7k extra in savings. And you are right. we are doing better than most. Gotta stop my pitty party. Being greatful has always been hard for me. I am too use to preparing for the next down fall.

 

[Rough-cutter]

I think that being happy at work is almost more important than the pay. If the pay is moderate but the workplace is spectacular, then that is better than a bad shop environment with backstabbers working next to you or even working by yourself with good pay.
Working alone is almost like being sent to work in the basement storage facility. Its can be like a punishment for some personalities.
I like the company of my working companions. Providing of course if they are good people. I quit my last job because someone started stealing my tools every week. And I still liked most everyone. But I also knew that there were a couple of scum bags since my tools were disappearing every week.

It's not always about the pay in my opinion. The pay was fine.

I heard that, anytime I get down about working completely alone all of the time. I remember it could be worse. Working with backstabbers, drama shit stirers. All things I don't need and am grateful not to have in my life anymore. And stealing tools forget about it. Where I was trained the good old boys taught me that we dont tolerate thieves around here. That being said, I still always lock my tool box. You just never know.

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

Currently I am @ $40/hr. If my old department had not closed. I would be at $45/ hr with less responsibility and skills required. Yes it was a union job. but the savings by moving to non union and not paying dues was immediately eaten up by much high health insurance cost.

Not bad, but you've got talents, lots of them, and they can make even more coin for you and your family.

I have thought of starting out my self in my garage or something. Maybe invest like $100k business loan into a decent hass and some tooling. But to make $40/hr or even $80,000 / yr plus benefits, I am not sure I can pull off at least not at first. But maybe I should just start small and do nights an weekends and see what I could do.

I did that very thing. Started off nights and weekends. I didn't get work from my former employer(s) but I did scrounge up enough on my own to make some money and start growing my business. I was still looking at other places for employment, and found some great gigs that helped boost the business and kept my standard of living in a comfortable range. Plus, even with all my years in the business, I was still picking up some decent tricks and tips from others.

But in that sincario , if I were to get work at my home business from my employer company. Then I would be taking work away from my self. and working nights at work would pay time and a half. So I would steer clear of doing any work for the company I already work for. Unless i am thinking about that all wrong.

You're thinking correctly, IMO. You can get work elsewhere, and still keep what you have at your job.

 

[EndlessWaltz]

You got it made compared to most of us. Seriously. Like all the others , stash your cash hardcore right now.
We have technically been in a recession. Shops either busy or completely dead. Corporate I know has been cutting people left and right for good reasons, but the timing is suspect going into winter... Things are way slower than the 1% want us to know. Maybe find a good used CNC you like to throw in your garage to do some design work and for a "just in case"

 

[Rough-cutter]

You got it made compared to most of us. Seriously. Like all the others , stash your cash hardcore right now.
We have technically been in a recession. Shops either busy or completely dead. Corporate I know has been cutting people left and right for good reasons, but the timing is suspect going into winter... Things are way slower than the 1% want us to know. Maybe find a good used CNC you like to throw in your garage to do some design work and for a "just in case"

True I should not complain. Maybe it is what you are saying that has me on edge. I have been very aware the economy as a whole is on the brink. And I agree, the executives and up all know this and are shitting their pants worse than we are I think. But just need to enjoy the little things. What always gets me through is I know it could always be worse. My problem is then I start thinking it is going to be worse.

Thanks for the perspective.

 

[CarbideBob]

I didnt see your location which affects pay ALOT. $35 / hr isnt a tough number to beat for someone with experience in many markets.

I guess location matters. This is card carrying journeyman toolmaker pay here.
Now you make make feel really bad about my worker pay levels. I feel cheap, dirty and bad boss. (sad face)

 

[rogertoolmaker]

Maybe I just need to vent, but here we go.

My current employment situation:
I have worked for a large corporation as a machinist/sheet metal fabricator for over a decade. About 5 years ago they shut down our entire fabrication department. Luckily we had enough people retire/quit that no one was truly laid off. However we all had to apply for jobs with in the company, all of which were at significantly lower pay. This facility still has assembly and electronics manufacturing in house. So I was able to get one of these lower paying assembly jobs. With in a few months I realized this was not for me. Assembly line work is not like fabrication work. I looked for jobs.

I found a job within the company that was in a small R&D Lab. I am now considered "Salary" even though I still get paid hourly. This job is fantastic and I am very fortunate to have it. I am a one man shop. Making prototypes, test equipment, fixtures, product modifications etc. I get to challenge myself and am growing in other aspects of machine shop management as I am handling everything my self.

The negatives of this job.
1. I work completely alone. Anyone on my "Team" are all electronics people and quite frankly barely know of to use a screw driver properly. I do not interact with them much at all. I mostly interact with engineers who are mostly clueless when it comes to machining/manufacturing as well. They treat me like any other vendor. Send me a part#, or design, or rough sketch, and I make it for them. I have no real peers or anyone to learn anything from. This extends to management as well. They barely know the difference between a lathe and a mill. They truly have no idea what it takes to do what I do. All they knew is that I worked in the fab department so I should be able to handle the job. And I can. Frankly I often feel over qualified.

2. While the money is good, it is not as much as I was making in the old department that got shut down. This job demands much more responsibility, skill, and stress than my old one that paid more. But anytime I talk about this with my bosses, they make it seem like I am paid more than most of the people in my "Team". And yes I have explained to them that those on my "Team" are not machinist of any kind, thus not paid as such. I even explain to management how I have added value to this role. My predecessor was a manual machinist and did not really know how to program cnc. I use cad / cam software and have increased output significantly.

3. Along with my personal finances. The company or at least my department does not seem to be doing well. This is a huge corporation and they can just take funding from one area and move it to another however they see fit. I have always complained that the shop I have is bare minimum. We have a cnc mill but it is slow. 4000 max rpm 200 IPM rapids (but probably never accelerates to that) 2 hp spindle. We have a mid size manual lathe, a drill press, a small hand brake(can only bend up to .063"thk material), vertical band saw and that is it. I provide all my own hand tools and measuring tools.
Anytime I ask for funds to upgrade equipment the answer is we want to reduce cost as much as possible. They do not seem concerned about increasing capability or investing in the shop in anyway.
This is just my shop. The department as a whole has been doing cost cutting measures of all kinds. Lower raise budgets, cutting all moral funding, We were furloughed on random Fridays a couple of years ago which reduced our overall pay by 10%. That was only for one year and have since gotten that back. But the cost cutting continues. Most recently I found out they are looking at reducing personnel. While I feel relatively safe as I am the only one here that does what I do. I also feel like a target because I am a cost that can be out sourced. And they do out source. When I am too busy they often use Xeometry or other shops and I cannot compete with what I have. I am forced to charge a shop rate of $102/ hr. that is our overhead (due to top heavy high management salaries in my opinion, seriously these guys make millions) and with the equipment I have I cannot compete on price most of the time.

4. Working for a large corporation. With this talk of reducing personnel, I was told that anyone who has used 40 hours or more of sick time this year was brought up on a list to be discussed for cutting. This is out of the 56 hrs of federally protected sick leave. I understand they need a way to weed out the non hackers and luckily I have not used much sick time. But for those who did, they had no idea that using 40 hrs of sick time would result in them being considered for termination. When I heard of this I told them they need to clearly set the expectations and that is not in anyway fair. Like you could have a terrible employee who never calls in sick and they never even get considered for termination. While a good employee who had a bad year, maybe sick kids or other issues but still does well and gets their work done. Get put on a list for possible termination. I was told they did not even consult management about this. It was decided by a higher level director to create this list (Those who increase our overhead I was talking about).
Another issue I have with how they decide if you are needed is if you "Run out of work". As I said. I do things multiple times faster than my predecessor due to utilizing technology. They have no way of measuring how much we do (or at least they don't want to try). They just highlight when we might not have work. The boss has suggested that I help the electronics people on my team when I am low on work. I don't know much about electronics and frankly am not interested in doing anything like that. So I am forced to sort of drag my feet sometimes to appear to be busy and needed. Other times I am too busy and not sure how a one man shop can do it all. The work is not constant. Also they are forcing other duties on us like administrative computer type work. I am not sure what it is yet but am told it is coming.

So my question is, should I stay or should I go?
The problem is that the company is not wrong when it comes to my pay. While I do not make as much as I did. I dont think getting a new job as a machinist, even a cnc programmer would pay me over $35/ hr and I make more than that now. So yes I know I have nothing to complain about when it comes to my pay. My bigger issue is working for people who do not know how to run the place.
I constantly feel like at any time they will just decide they do not need our little machine shop any more and I will be out on my ass. Before when I got another job in the company, I was union. I had some sonority. I have given all of that up and feel like the last Mohican. I think my plan is to save as much $ as possible. Sharpen my resume. and ignore the corporate B.S. although that is hard sometimes. The things they do to make a $ are just not right.
Any and all advice is greatly appreciated. I realize this is just a whiney vent / rant. I am very fortunate. I just have no one to talk to about all of this. As I said I am non union now and it is every man for himself around here. I am just lucky non of these people know how to cut metal or I would probably already be out.

There are seasons to a man's life. When he starts to learn his trade; he has a passion for learning and doing things. As his age increases, his skills improve, he find himself in a good place to earn a living. But, he must work to feed himself and family. "He plays the same old tune to collect the Coppers". It may be time to raise your sights and be flexible and mobile. To see whether there's a better situation. Maybe start your own moon- light shop on the side. It looks to me you have considerable skills. Why not raise your sights?
All the Best for You,
Roger

 

[Mebfab]

I think I figured out why kids won't work.

 

[Stirling]

I heard that, anytime I get down about working completely alone all of the time. I remember it could be worse. Working with backstabbers, drama shit stirers. All things I don't need and am grateful not to have in my life anymore. And stealing tools forget about it. Where I was trained the good old boys taught me that we dont tolerate thieves around here. That being said, I still always lock my tool box. You just never know.

Working alone can be tough.
In my case I work alone as a one man garage shop. It’s lonely. You got no one to bounce ideas off off unless you build an outside network of machinist friends (forum and local people)

Comments and YouTube makes it look like a gravy train but it’s not.
You got to be willing to loose. Put family time aside. Bust $500 in cutters and loose money on that job. Late thankless nights. Maybe make money on that job. Did you quote well enough for that broken thing this time?
Not get paid for months from some asshole that owes you $50k…..
All the while working a day job?
Your family better be prepared and supportive for the 3 year process to see if it’s a win or fail.

Sucks to have lame con workers and managers, sucks more when the only one accountable if you.

It can be a big win. I’m doing ok after 5 years of grind. But I was close to broke and had though I made the wrong move many nights…..

Will your temperament handle the bad days? Risk? Upset family? Failure?
Something to consider before spending with a bank loan to try it.

Don’t let me stop you. But these are things to think about.

It almost sounds like your seeking fulfilment through work. (Good workers tend to do this!)
But is there other areas in life you can find happiness and fulfilment other than work? Hobbies/family?
Become a scouts leader?
Again, things to think about. Works not everything.

 

[Rough-cutter]

Working alone can be tough.
In my case I work alone as a one man garage shop. It’s lonely. You got no one to bounce ideas off off unless you build an outside network of machinist friends (forum and local people)

Comments and YouTube makes it look like a gravy train but it’s not.
You got to be willing to loose. Put family time aside. Bust $500 in cutters and loose money on that job. Late thankless nights. Maybe make money on that job. Did you quote well enough for that broken thing this time?
Not get paid for months from some asshole that owes you $50k…..
All the while working a day job?
Your family better be prepared and supportive for the 3 year process to see if it’s a win or fail.

Sucks to have lame con workers and managers, sucks more when the only one accountable if you.

It can be a big win. I’m doing ok after 5 years of grind. But I was close to broke and had though I made the wrong move many nights…..

Will your temperament handle the bad days? Risk? Upset family? Failure?
Something to consider before spending with a bank loan to try it.

Don’t let me stop you. But these are things to think about.

It almost sounds like your seeking fulfilment through work. (Good workers tend to do this!)
But is there other areas in life you can find happiness and fulfilment other than work? Hobbies/family?
Become a scouts leader?
Again, things to think about. Works not everything.

Great advice, thank you. You are right. I am just extremely isolated. The job is just an easy thing to blame. but you are 100% correct. Need to find fulfilment in something else. For me it is sort of like the professional cook that wont cook at home because he is tired of cooking all day everyday. Making use to be my passion. I would spend nights and weekends making all sorts of things. Loft beds for the kids, night stands for the wife, etc... But now I don't do anything anymore. I turned my hobby into my job. Which is good when it comes to doing the work at work. But I don't really have anything outside of that. I have been trying to go down to the pool hall once a week just to get out of the house, or get more involved with the kids. Might be a part of middle age as well. No real friends or peers anymore either. Making new friends is hard. Seems like the only thing to do in this town is drink and watch football. But in any case. Your advice stands. Blaming the job for my un happiness will get me no where.

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

or get more involved with the kids.

Do that. I'm glad I did. My kids are now approaching 30 and we still get together regularly at least once a week.

 

[Stirling]

Great advice, thank you. You are right. I am just extremely isolated. The job is just an easy thing to blame. but you are 100% correct. Need to find fulfilment in something else. For me it is sort of like the professional cook that wont cook at home because he is tired of cooking all day everyday. Making use to be my passion. I would spend nights and weekends making all sorts of things. Loft beds for the kids, night stands for the wife, etc... But now I don't do anything anymore. I turned my hobby into my job. Which is good when it comes to doing the work at work. But I don't really have anything outside of that. I have been trying to go down to the pool hall once a week just to get out of the house, or get more involved with the kids. Might be a part of middle age as well. No real friends or peers anymore either. Making new friends is hard. Seems like the only thing to do in this town is drink and watch football. But in any case. Your advice stands. Blaming the job for my un happiness will get me no where.

I think this statement shines true for far far to many middle aged men.

You can never go wrong investing in a strong relationship with your kids. Good for you, them, and society at large.

I’m very conscious oh when I neglect my family. In have been very straightforward with my wife to tell me when I’m down the work rabbit hole too deep. She gets it. It’s our income, but family is why we work so hard right?

My dad worked his ass off, waaay to much. Always trucking. Never home.
Thought he was doing the right thing.

Did the typical unwind by getting together with friends at the bar for drinks and the game. He looks back in it now as toxic, and it took a lot of years to repair the damage with family of never being around. Divorce, harsh words….
The look in his eyes when he talks about my sisters that still won’t see him. It literally haunts me.
Again, probably far far to true for many men.

Work “the job” and take time to think about improving the family.
So many things to do with them, heck, free things. Just your time and energy to “be there” with them.

I wish I had had my father growing up. Heck any male role model.
I’m 39 and it still bothers me.
Without a role mor and a single mom always working, I really struggled to understand relationships and personal dynamics. Really only started understanding it after my 30’s

I got a few positive memory’s. I cherish them.
And me and my dad are good now.
Heck. He’s even staying over for 2 weeks to help run the lathe and see the grandkids. Big time win.

But there’s my sideways semi related ish rant. Haha

Who knows, after really looking at things and feeling more satisfied with what you got, you’re job won’t ever bother you anymore.
Too busy thinking of throwing a ball with the kids