Air vises

[wmpy]

100 mm Air Vise

www.haascnc.com

Pneumatic Self-centering Clamping Force Blocks Vise Jaw For Cnc Machine - Buy Self-centering Pneumatic Force Blocks,Self-centered Workholding Clamp Blocks,Quick Release Pneumatic Vise Jaws Product on Alibaba.com

Pneumatic Self-centering Clamping Force Blocks Vise Jaw For Cnc Machine - Buy Self-centering Pneumatic Force Blocks,Self-centered Workholding Clamp Blocks,Quick Release Pneumatic Vise Jaws Product on Alibaba.com

www.alibaba.com

These sure do look to be the same thing. Does anyone have any experience with these? Is Haas getting them from China, or is someone in China copying the Haas design?

 

[tcncj]

In before:
Haas fanboys screaming "Made in the USA"

Haas tooling is rebranded stuff from China and South Korea.
I'm not saying anything is wrong with the tools. I think they are great value for money for the US customers.

But we're spoiled in Europe with good quality tools.

 

[gkoenig]

I'm not saying anything is wrong with the tools. I think they are great value for money for the US customers.

Automation applications are not the place to go cheap on work holding. Spend 20% more and get a Schunk KSP3-100; there is a reason they are the definitive industry standard despite the higher price.

The Haas air vise looks like a shade tree mechanic with a ratty Bridgeport made it where as every item from Schunk looks like it was built by aliens in comparison. That level of quality goes far beyond skin deep.

 

[wmpy]

Automation applications are not the place to go cheap on work holding. Spend 20% more and get a Schunk KSP3-100; there is a reason they are the definitive industry standard despite the higher price.

The Haas air vise looks like a shade tree mechanic with a ratty Bridgeport made it where as every item from Schunk looks like it was built by aliens in comparison. That level of quality goes far beyond skin deep.

I knew Schunk vises would be mentioned... I assume you mean that a Schunk vise is 20% more than the Haas vise, not the Alibaba version. I hear you about the quality of their products. I have one of their lathe chucks with quick change jaws, and it's primo. I just think that someone dipping their toe in machining center automation might be tempted by a pneumatic vise for under $600. I'm tempted. It really reduces the barrier to entry. I guess I'd consider it something to learn with. Then down the road, if all goes well with the process, but the vise is found to be the weak spot, you could by the $4000 Schunk vise with confidence that it would be worth it for your parts.

Also, I'm not crazy, right? Those two vises I linked are the exact same thing?

 

[Comatose]

Also, I'm not crazy, right? Those two vises I linked are the exact same thing?

I mean, I've seen pictures of my products in any number of alibaba ads, and we manufacture everything here, so...

It's extremely possible that what is pictured in the ad is exactly the same thing as what haas is buying. Is that what you will get for your $600? That's a lot more of a crap shoot.

 

[Milland]

There's small detail differences between the bases (the Haas doesn't have the short lip at the bottom), but it sure looks like a purposeful copy. Whether the Ali vise is from the same manufacturer I can't say.

 

[gkoenig]

I'm tempted. It really reduces the barrier to entry. I guess I'd consider it something to learn with. Then down the road, if all goes well with the process, but the vise is found to be the weak spot, you could by the $4000 Schunk vise with confidence that it would be worth it for your parts.

Schunk makes the PSG-3 as their aluminum body low-cost vise. The only real difference between it and the KSP3 is that it is only rated for 100k cycles before service vs the 1 Million for the KSP, and it is aluminum so not as durable in rough environments. Clamping force, reliability, overall quality? The PSG3 whips the POS Haas thing. Cost? $2k.

Dip your toe in the automation waters with that, but not this Haas branded Alibaba shit.

 

[Mtndew]

I knew Schunk vises would be mentioned.

There's a very good reason for that.

I'd stay away from the Haas and definitely the shit alibaba versions. The vise is the core of your work, don't skimp on it.

 

[mhajicek]

I got some cheap Chinese compact self centering vises for $60 each. I expected there'd be a good chance they were crap, but they're actually very nice. I bought six more to build into a fixture.

I agree with the viewpoint of picking up the $600 auto vise to try out, and if the vise turns out to be the weak point, you can always upgrade. If the cheap one works well, then you've proven that out and can afford to pick up a bunch more.

 

[EmGo]

Quite a few people here never had their own shop and never had to write the checks, I see ...

 

[gkoenig]

Quite a few people here never had their own shop and never had to write the checks, I see ...

Like I said, the Schunk PGS is cheaper than the Haas.

Automation is a detail oriented ballgame that is all about risk mitigation and process reliability. The worst machine crashes I've ever seen have happened when automation stuff goes sideways and the team lacked the appropriate imagination to figure out how to mitigate issues before hand.

The work holding is *the most* critical component in the Rube Goldberg chain; it is not the place to go Alibaba on; especially now that Schunk has the PGS which brings reliable work-holding to a reasonable price.

 

[garyhlucas]

I hate junk tools. That said I still buy a fair amount for proof of concept. Lets say this spiffy new automation project has an oops in early testing and splatters that cheap vise all over the enclosure. If the vise failed you learned that you need something better. If it was your automation that failed you'll problably put another cheap vise on knowing what can happen. Machines working perfect, all the safety code in place, drop the expensive one in and go.

 

[crossthread82]

I got some cheap Chinese compact self centering vises for $60 each. I expected there'd be a good chance they were crap, but they're actually very nice. I bought six more to build into a fixture.

I agree with the viewpoint of picking up the $600 auto vise to try out, and if the vise turns out to be the weak point, you can always upgrade. If the cheap one works well, then you've proven that out and can afford to pick up a bunch more.

I looked at the ones you linked. Do they have anything holding the jaws to the vise body? The pictures make it look like there's no "T" on the bottom of the jaws and they're just held by the screw.

 

[mhajicek]

I looked at the ones you linked. Do they have anything holding the jaws to the vise body? The pictures make it look like there's no "T" on the bottom of the jaws and they're just held by the screw.

What they did is pretty clever. They used a 60 degree thread profile, three tiers, probably made in one pass of a multi-form threadmill. So all they had to do to make a tight fit up is control the one dimension of the width, instead of both width and height like on a box way.

 

[EmGo]

Like I said, the Schunk PGS is cheaper than the Haas.

Automation is a detail oriented ballgame that is all about risk mitigation and process reliability. The worst machine crashes I've ever seen have happened when automation stuff goes sideways and the team lacked the appropriate imagination to figure out how to mitigate issues before hand.

The work holding is *the most* critical component in the Rube Goldberg chain; it is not the place to go Alibaba on; especially now that Schunk has the PGS which brings reliable work-holding to a reasonable price.

Ivory tower bee ess.

First off, you don't have a clue about whether the alibaba part is up to the job. Not one. Sheer conjecture.

Second, the economics of any job are always dependent on the job itself. For example, I have found gear cutting tools for people that were 1/3 the price of Pfauter-Maag tools. Were they "as good" in an absolute sense ? Of course not. Were they the most economical for the job ?

China shaper cutter, $350. Pfauter-Maag $650. China lifespan, 5,000 parts (for example). Pfauter-Maag, 15,000 parts. (Heat treat and materials are the weakness of the cheaper China product, not accuracy.)

So, if you are making 12,000 parts, the expensive cutter is cheaper. If you are making 3,000 parts the cheaper product is better. If you are making 50 parts (not uncommon) then you just pissed away $300. But I guess you can always go to the shelf and gloat over your beautiful shaper cutter, if that gives you a hardon.

There are no "absolute" rules in this game and they don't pay us for how beautiful our workholding tools are. Outside of personal satisfaction looking at them, the tool that does the job at lowest cost is economically the best.

 

[gkoenig]

Ivory tower bee ess.

First off, you don't have a clue about whether the alibaba part is up to the job. Not one. Sheer conjecture.

This has nothing to do with aesthetics and everything to do with process reliability.

Put simply; the very worst machine crashes I've seen all happened in automation cells. Just a minor lapse in imagination on the part of the engineering staff and you find a cascading failure mode where literally *everything* goes wrong.

So do I know if the Alibaba vise is "up to the job"? Absolutely not, and that should be enough to remove it from contention from anything but the most lightweight, monitored, easy automation process.

Automation outside of a bar-fed lathe is basically a Rube Goldberg affair; the key to making it work is controlling a series of complicated variables, and the best way to do that is to eliminate variables wherever you possibly can. The work holding is a hell of a good place to start.

 

[Hebrewhammer8]

Put simply; the very worst machine crashes I've seen all happened in automation cells. Just a minor lapse in imagination on the part of the engineering staff and you find a cascading failure mode where literally *everything* goes wrong.

As someone getting into automation at the moment I think I will print this out and put it on my wall as motivation to imagine even more ways things can go wrong!

 

[EmGo]

This has nothing to do with aesthetics and everything to do with process reliability.

Put simply; the very worst machine crashes I've seen all happened in automation cells. Just a minor lapse in imagination on the part of the engineering staff and you find a cascading failure mode where literally *everything* goes wrong.

So do I know if the Alibaba vise is "up to the job"? Absolutely not, and that should be enough to remove it from contention from anything but the most lightweight, monitored, easy automation process.

In other words, bla bla bla, you don't have a clue so you're just regurgitating the marketing schtick of some german company. Whoop-dee-arfing do.

 

[thesidetalker]

You guys rooting for that Alibaba vise did see that it is min qty of 2? And I don't know about you, but it says $270 shipping for me.

It's not a "$600 vise." It's $1500 for 2 vises.. of unknown quality.

 

[EmGo]

You guys rooting for that Alibaba vise did see that it is min qty of 2? And I don't know about you, but it says $270 shipping for me.

It's not a "$600 vise." It's $1500 for 2 vises.. of unknown quality.

Nah, if you want one let me know. And that's probably air freight, if you aren't in a hurry I sent about 70 lbs to Charlotte a while back for under $100. Hope this vice isn't heavier than that or putting it on the table will be no fun. Took a couple weeks but if you aren't in a rush, saving money is good.