Burden of reshoring manufacturing back into USA?

[machinistrrt]

Carnegie brought in the Pinkertons with rifles to break a strike. Several workers were killed. I respect the right to strike but these steel plant workers took over the plant and locked everyone out. Can't do that. Picket in the public land/sidewalk but no one has the right to block the street or take over private property.

Don't think it was Carnegie, pretty sure it was his No 2, Frick. WRT plant takeover, I think it happened in the states once in Chicago or Detroit. Check out the documentary movie called The Take, happened in Argentina, I think.

 

[CarbideBob]

. I respect the right to strike but these steel plant workers took over the plant and locked everyone out. Can't do that. Picket in the public land/sidewalk but no one has the right to block the street or take over private property.

Ever hear of the "Sitdowners"? Both my of my grandparents there on this "takeover".

 

[mhajicek]

Don't know it why you think it was so great in that time span for employees. No real benefits. Employers started benefits like health care and pensions during WWII to attract employees when the government froze wages. Since employers could not use higher wages to attract them they offered fringe benefits. No OSHA then either so a lot of guys got killed , maimed, or sickened and with no workman,'s comp. if you were too hurt or sick to work, no pay. Usually work then was 10-12 hours a day, six days a week. No holidays except Christmas day. It is foolish to romanticize that time period as it was not that great for workers. Compared to that time period, work is a picnic today.

Yeah, there are tradeoffs. Some things are better, some are worse, for both employers and employees. For me, the only way I was able to save up enough money go start my business was by working contract for several years, and keeping the money I was supposed to be using to buy my own health insurance.

 

[standardparts]

Ever hear of the "Sitdowners"? Both my of my grandparents there on this "takeover".

Flint 1936-37?
Depression raging. Tough times for workers.

Flint sit-down strike - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

After Flint/General Motors it was Ford's turn. "Battle Of The Overpass"--1937

Battle of the Overpass - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Always wondered if they include part of semester in colleges and universities covering the history of manufacturing and labor relations.

 

[Pete Deal]

I don’t know much about this ancient history. Here now and recently what seems to me is that in addition to lost knowledge what’s been lost is a work ethic in the USA. Everyone has been taught for many years that they go to college then get a job where they read a few emails, maybe send a text or two, make a phone call. Nobody wants to get dirty or sweaty.

 

[michiganbuck]

The story was at the first Chrysler strike the company hired some goons to beat up the picket guys..some of the old timers told me that.

Another story is that Chrysler bolted a number of 6 cylinders together to make a tank engine for WW2.

Walter P. Reuther Library (45977) Chrysler Sit-Down Strike, Women's Auxiliary, 1937

reuther.wayne.edu

 

[Bill D]

I understand that the US navy never built a new periscope after ww2. All the nuclear subs used ww2 surplus ones until a few years ago when they switched to new video only scopes on brand new masts. Why does a submersible need a viewport these days when a camera is better? Even if they had paid more to get a rated viewport.

 

[Ox]

A lot further back,I remember a TV program about the closure of the last television maker in the USA..must have been the 70s .

No, we had one near here until the tubes all went away. (15 yrs ago now?)


--------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[jccaclimber]

I don’t know much about this ancient history. Here now and recently what seems to me is that in addition to lost knowledge what’s been lost is a work ethic in the USA. Everyone has been taught for many years that they go to college then get a job where they read a few emails, maybe send a text or two, make a phone call. Nobody wants to get dirty or sweaty.

It’s not that nobody wants to get dirty, it’s that nobody wants to get paid less, and BTW you get dirty too. If you wanted to work and get paid a bit more you work in an Amazon warehouse. Want to get dirty and work get on a construction crew. Both did these, fairly or not, pay better at the entry level than being a machinist. Want to do better, do any of the three while taking classes for those email writing jobs.
I’m not saying I like it this way, but if the wages were reversed you would see a lot more people in machining.

 

[CarbideBob]

If you wanted to work and get paid a bit more you work in an Amazon warehouse.

What does a Amazon warehouse worker get paid?

 

[jccaclimber]

What does a Amazon warehouse worker get paid?

About $20/hour last time I looked it up. Probably more near me. Last I checked with my friends in DFW they were wondering why they couldn’t find machinists at $18/hr. Top end at that shop is $30, but 10 years in if you’re a top performer. They wonder why they can’t keep employees.

 

[jccaclimber]

I checked some local postings where I’m at. Journeyman machinist at $25, programmer and setup at $35, Amazon delivery at $22 to $25, warehouse at $20 to $28. The catch is that green engineer (mechanical) is pretty easy to find at $30 to $45 with no searching, and $50 to $80/hr if you dig a bit. I’m sure there are machining jobs there too, but not in nearly the same quantities and the top end is much higher as you progress.

 

[CarbideBob]

Wages might be way different in California.
I know the pay at Amazon from starting on the floor to general manager here in Michigan. Starting or driver are not these numbers.
The guy/gal sorting, picking and loading packages works very hard and fast and the computers track everything. As a super or manger it is your job to push to get those numbers.
It is a job many people can not keep up with. Life as a cnc machinists or production worker is way easy compared to this.
Be nice if they would A/C the buildings. Big building and can't do that. Open the bay doors on both sides and hope for a breeze.
https://www.theoaklandpress.com/2023/07/14/workers-picket-pontiacs-amazon-fulfillment-facility/
Just saying that maybe the grass not so green working for this place.
If you are paid well as a manger this may lead to a conundrum if you have the slightest care about your team.

Upsetting is the time for a Chinese owned large UAW place in mid-Michigan.
Write them up was the answer to everything from above. Six and they are gone.
"No, I want to sit down, talk with them and make it work". Had to fight my bosses many times to do such and bad notes went in my personnel file.
Maybe I'm just soft or maybe I remember being that guy on the floor.

One can build a incredible team if you are fair and your people think you fair. Yes this does means being brutal or worse sometimes.
A boss once told me "Your people will eat cardboard to stay alive if they trust and believe in you and a future."
When a fired employee came in the back shop door with his deer rifle looking for me I got this in spades.
Bob

 

[jccaclimber]

Wages might be way different in California.
I know the pay at Amazon from starting on the floor to general manager here in Michigan. Starting or driver are not these numbers.
The guy/gal sorting and loading packages works very hard and fast and the computers track everything. As a super or manger it is your job to push to get those numbers.
It is a job many people can not keep up with. Life as a cnc machinists or production worker is way easy compared to this.
Be nice if they would A/C the buildings. Big building and can't do that. Open the bay doors on both sides and hope for a breeze.
https://www.theoaklandpress.com/2023/07/14/workers-picket-pontiacs-amazon-fulfillment-facility/
Just saying that maybe the grass not so green working for this place.
Bob

Just intended as an example, perhaps I picked a poor one. Point being wages in at least some jobs have grown faster with inflation than others and it seems like entry level machining has grown slowly enough that the competing jobs are different. Back when I worked in automotive a few hours outside Detroit 15 years ago entry machining jobs easily paid 2x to 3x what the local low skill (retail and similar) jobs paid. It made it an easier sell to prospective employees. This is not longer the case, at least where I’ve looked.

 

[Mark Rand]

Amazon workers in two out of the three nearest warehouses to me have been striking. My son worked in the nearest one for a while but mooved to a diffrent company's warehouse nearby, for a lower rate, due to the pressure in the Amazon one. He's now on a higher rate than the Amazon workers...

The UK story echoes the US one. German and French Amazon workers have also been striking. We may all benefit from the lower prices, but there is a cost.

 

[standardparts]

Amazon workers in two out of the three nearest warehouses to me have been striking. My son worked in the nearest one for a while but mooved to a diffrent company's warehouse nearby, for a lower rate, due to the pressure in the Amazon one. He's now on a higher rate than the Amazon workers...

The UK story echoes the US one. German and French Amazon workers have also been striking. We may all benefit from the lower prices, but there is a cost.

In the U.S. seems like the Teamsters are focusing attention on Amazon distribution centers at many locations. Probably need to boost membership dues as the 2024 election cycle is gonna prove real expensive and votes will be needed.
Amazon provides a whole lot of services to the U.S. Gov't and receives $Billions in incentives/subsidies (tax money) from various States. Business and Gov't in bed together?...no way. (the current administrations bailout of the Teamster pension is the biggest in history)
I believe California and Michigan are at the top of the list which it seems means pro-union states subsidize non-union business.
It's just the taxpayers money after all...so one way or another "there is a cost".

 

[EndlessWaltz]

Was lining up a guy probably mid-thirties to do a small deck etc. Said more work would be his way for sure if he could show up and do it. Pencil me in his schedule. When I tried to get him to repeat the verbal rough estimate in an email he kept finding excuses not to. Literally this guy gets the small jobs the larger crews wont do and he still is to dumb to do it, build his reputation, and then charge what he wants? Like, you are already your own business owner. You have no boss and you are either this dumb or this lazy? I have so much work I could give him year after year and good word around town and ....nope.

I thought worker's comp started in 1930's?

 

[john.k]

Here,Amazon doesnt directly employ anyone ...they hire labour from a provider .....which puts them at arms length from a great many laws ,and doubtless has tax advantages...........The mines also do this ,and powerful unions now have this practice in their sights ,with the backing of the current socialist government.

 

[jim rozen]

"I don’t know much about this ancient history."

Maybe it's time you learned a bit instead of spouting off. Unions: the folks who bought you the weekend.

"...they go to college then get a job..."

Yeah all you folks QUIT going to college and work for the rest of your life at a low paying job where you get dirty every day.

 

[604Pook]

Around here you can't get a guy to lean on a shovel and watch an excavator move dirt for $25 an hour. $20 an hour to flip burgers at McDonalds.

There is help wanted signs in every business.

I think the one thing China did right is having whole towns catering to a specific type of industry. Its a very efficient way to have materials, supplies, expertise, and manufacturers all in the same area.