Camelback drill spindle issues

[HA1]

Hello,

My first post here, despite I’ve been reading for quite some time. I live in Europe so please forgive me my mistakes in English.

I recently managed to save a camelback drill (brand “Rico”) from being scrapped as the owner passed away and the family sold the house. Despite being outside it was heavily covered in grease and oil and quickly functioning after cleaning. However I noticed it had so much runout it was impossible to use it. I measured 0,8 mm TIR runout. Part of it is because of a bend in the spindle, which I will try to repair with my fathers hydraulic press. However I also notice quite a bit of play (about 0,3 mm TIR). The quil is just a cast iron tube with the spindle running inside of it, no bearings or bushings. I could bore it out and press in some bushings, but the spindle itself also has some wear which is harder to repair. I can’t really turn down the entire OD as the spindle is only slightly larger than the keyed upper portion of the spindle that slides inside the crown gear. Also the nut is on there with an M28 thread (shaft is also 28 mm, upper part 25 mm). I could weld up the worn area but fear warping the shaft.

I also considered machining a two halve sleeve to increase the spindle size to 30 mm and install some cone bearings. However this is tricky as there is not much material left for the quill in that case.

Any advice? Tossing the drill also is an option but as it was very cheap I assume some work to get it functional might be worth it.

 

[john.k]

Unfortunately ,these old drills get to the point that they cant be fixed without spending 10x what they are worth ......if you wanted to throw money at it ,hardchroming and grinding of the moving parts and reaming/boring/honing of the other worn parts would probably return it to usefullness.

 

[michiganbuck]

Part of it is because of a bend in the spindle, which I will try to repair with my father's hydraulic press.

Straightening is a learned skill...If you don't have experience, studying the subject well is good. Perhaps send the straightening job out.
A drill press can be made to function OK/useful and be cosmetically pleasing with not being perfect.
,012"tir and .8(.031") run out? Sometimes if a shaft has centers at bother ends it might be ground between centers and a bushing pressed on to make it run true,
You might take that past to ask a machine repair for a quote..they may give you some advice on a good method.
Very often a close hole is scribed and punched to .13MM (.005") of location for location and so not depending on the DP to be high precision.

 

[HA1]

Straightening is a learned skill...If you don't have experience, studying the subject well is good. Perhaps send the straightening job out.
A drill press can be made to function OK/useful and be cosmetically pleasing with not being perfect.

I did some straightening in the past, with reasonable results and am confident I can at least make it better. If I need to have it done by a company I might even be better off having a new spindle turned.

 

[john.k]

Often a worn drill will be especially loose in the top pulley drive.spindle keyway area.....so check this part is servicable first ........yes it can be repaired too ,but where to call a halt.

 

[HA1]

Part of it is because of a bend in the spindle, which I will try to repair with my father's hydraulic press.

Straightening is a learned skill...If you don't have experience, studying the subject well is good. Perhaps send the straightening job out.
A drill press can be made to function OK/useful and be cosmetically pleasing with not being perfect.
,012"tir and .8(.031") run out? Sometimes if a shaft has centers at bother ends it might be ground between centers and a bushing pressed on to make it run true,
You might take that past to ask a machine repair for a quote..they may give you some advice on a good method.
Very often a close hole is scribed and punched to .005 of location for location and so not depending on the DP to be high precision.

Yes indeed .031” runout. With a 1/4” drill that’s 13 percent of the hole size, and it makes the whole setup shake quite a bit. With the workpiece in the vise it might even break a drill.

 

[HA1]

Often a worn drill will be especially loose in the top pulley drive.spindle keyway area.....so check this part is servicable first ........yes it can be repaired too ,but where to call a halt.

To me this feels in quite a good shape. The gear is rather quiet even at top speed.

 

[michiganbuck]

Good to put on a guard if the gear is facing forward and exposed to catch fingers.

 

[HA1]

Good to put on a guard if the gear is facing forward and exposed to catch fingers.

It’s a camelback drill, most of them, mine included, come default with a guard. However this has nothing to do with my initial question.

 

[michiganbuck]

qt: (However this has nothing to do with my initial question)
Agree, but exposed reversing gears have chewed off so many fingers it is always good to mention them. IMHO.

 

[TaperPin]

Straighten the shaft - that’s not that difficult and most new drills don’t have the straightest parts when new - it’s not a milling machine.
Nobody will make the part cheaply and if it is cheap it will not be straight.

 

[HA1]

qt: (However this has nothing to do with my initial question)
Agree, but exposed reversing gears have chewed off so many fingers it is always good to mention them. IMHO.

Not sure what you mean by reversing gears. However the only gears this machine has are all covered, no worries.

Straighten the shaft - that’s not that difficult and most new drills don’t have the straightest parts when new - it’s not a milling machine.
Nobody will make the part cheaply and if it is cheap it will not be straight.

That was the plan. Rightnow it's too crooked to use and I don't have much to loose. However straightening it will not take out the play so while I was working on this I was trying to get this fixed as well. 0,3 mm is quite a bit.

 

[TaperPin]

However straightening it will not take out the play so while I was working on this I was trying to get this fixed as well. 0,3 mm is quite a bit.

You might look into one of the readily available thin sleeves or bushings and internal/external lapping/reaming of the existing parts to get tight tolerances without a lot of expense or complicated machining.

For instance the lower shaft might get a sleeve and the inner diameter of the quill would be reamed or lapped for the correct match to the short section of sleeve. If the shaft is too warn for a sleeve or bushing to keep a press fit, it would be an easy fix to braze the area instead of a bushing and turn the brazed area down to correct size or use a sleeve retaining compound or even epoxy to hold it in place. It’s a drill press - not a milling machine.

Best of luck! Looks like a fun project!

 

[michiganbuck]

The reversing gears were right in front of some comebacks, with a double gear in the middle and a right and left gear above and below that gear. An operator would reach up to the hand lever while looking at the part being drilled and accidentally put his fingers in the gears.
where you see an empty place on the spindle is where people have removed these gears. My camelback still has the gears and I have a photo someplace on my computer.

 

[HA1]

You might look into one of the readily available thin sleeves or bushings and internal/external lapping/reaming of the existing parts to get tight tolerances without a lot of expense or complicated machining.

For instance the lower shaft might get a sleeve and the inner diameter of the quill would be reamed or lapped for the correct match to the short section of sleeve. If the shaft is too warn for a sleeve or bushing to keep a press fit, it would be an easy fix to braze the area instead of a bushing and turn the brazed area down to correct size or use a sleeve retaining compound or even epoxy to hold it in place. It’s a drill press - not a milling machine.

Best of luck! Looks like a fun project!

I fear heat a bit as it might warp the shaft. And indeed the spindle is too worn for press fitting any kind of bearing as it would be tight on its way up and loose in its final position. I decided to first straighten the shaft and then see, I'll keep you updated!

The reversing gears were right in front of some comebacks, with a double gear in the middle and a right and left gear above and below that gear. An operator would reach up to the hand lever while looking at the part being drilled and accidentally put his fingers in the gears.
where you see an empty place on the spindle is where people have removed these gears. My camelback still has the gears and I have a photo someplace on my computer.

Well this one doesn't even have autofeed and can only turn in one direction. The only gears in the machine are the ones connecting the horizontal pulley shaft to the spindle, and the worm gear for fine feed. Both sets are protected by cast iron covers.
My other 4 camelbacks, though some come with back gears (which are integrated in the pulley) and/or power feed, have no exposed gears as well. Only my two radials, one has exposed feed gears, the other has two open gears on top of the collumn, are a bit more dangerous here. But none of those are within operators reach.
If you wonder why I have so many drilling machines, well when the owner died I was invited there and he had four drilling machines and two lathes in his yard. I made an offer for them all and it was immediately accepted as the house had to be sold and nobody wanted to mess with these machines. They were only a mile away (though I never knew the were there).