Damaged BT30 spindle. grrr

[Ianagos]

I've never seen wear on a pullstud like that before. What kind of machines use balls to grab the pullstud? I've never had a machine like that, all of mine use grippers that grab the whole stud.

All my BT40 stuff has Maritool pullstuds and they look like new. I'd be concerned if a pullstud had any damage at all.

That’s a brother s700x2 not even a year old.

That pullstud is less than 6 months old

 

[Milland]

I've never seen wear on a pullstud like that before. What kind of machines use balls to grab the pullstud? I've never had a machine like that, all of mine use grippers that grab the whole stud.

All my BT40 stuff has Maritool pullstuds and they look like new. I'd be concerned if a pullstud had any damage at all.

[Scuffs shoe while looking down] Haas uses ball retainers...

 

[Pete Deal]

I just looked at a bunch of my pull studs. I have some JM, Maritool, and others. All have little ball indentations at the rim, pretty much all the same. Nothing like chips or whatever shown in that photo.

 

[Vancbiker]

Quite a few builders use ball retainers, particularly in 30 taper. As the taper sizes get larger collet or finger type grippers get more prevalent but by no means universal.

 

[Bobw]

Something bad happened to that tool holder.

If the stud was crap, there would be equal indentations around it. That
tool did something bad and *almost* got yanked out of the spindle.

 

[Ianagos]

Something bad happened to that tool holder.

If the stud was crap, there would be equal indentations around it. That
tool did something bad and *almost* got yanked out of the spindle.

Nope nothing bad happened to that tool.

Machine is a production machine for certain part. It has never run another part. As a matter of fact it has never even cut metal.

All fixtures for it are made on other machines.

That tool is the last finishing tool in the operation it has very very low cutting force.

Spindle is a 27k spindle of anything bad he happened the spindle would have problems.


Can’t take any more pictures till next week


but I do think I determined why the machine had a slight banging sound changing tools. (It did not always) Seems like the maritool studs have deformed enough that they are kind mushrooming out and that’s hitting the inside of the drawbar.
I’m not 100% on that but it’s my theory for now.

 

[Milland]

but I do think I determined why the machine had a slight banging sound changing tools. (It did not always) Seems like the maritool studs have deformed enough that they are kind mushrooming out and that’s hitting the inside of the drawbar.
I’m not 100% on that but it’s my theory for now.

I hope you're changing out that stud ASAP...

 

[Ianagos]

I hope you're changing out that stud ASAP...

They are all similar sadly… I’m ordering new ones here today. What brand is recommended? Think I’m going to get some of the other brand we have. They seem to be holding up significantly better

 

[Milland]

They are all similar sadly… I’m ordering new ones here today. What brand is recommended? Think I’m going to get some of the other brand we have. They seem to be holding up significantly better

On my Haas mills I use Techniks, but I don't know if they're available for BT30 (I'd think so). But the JM's got a lot of love on this thread, maybe go with them?

 

[Houndogforever]

Any idea how much he had to take off?

He said he only touches the high spots. I saw the blued master and it was very well covered. Over 90%.
Then he put in my master and verified that we had 0.00015 tir at 5" from gage line.
Looking up inside the spindle it hardly looks like he touched it honestly.
He has a small, 15,000rpm ID grinder and fixture. It's really simple looking, but I didn't stand and watch him.

I re-set up my part, re-calibrated the touch probe and ran the program. It sounded great. No different than before and I'm even using the same endmill that survived the tool holder destruction.

Cost was $1600.00 and worth it to me. This crash was not nearly the slam that I did before. That one broke some ceramic bearings I think.

Tool change works great. He did mention a few times that there is about a 7 to 1 relationship on the taper, so every .0001 he takes off moves gage line .0007 I think. I may have that backwards, but whatever, he knows how critical that is.
Also mentioned he was over at Stanley hydraulics re-grinding a 2 month old Haas spindle that they crashed.

He also says that spindles are about HRc60 whereas holders are more like HRc50-55 so many crashes, it literally is just the build up he is taking off.

Like I said, worth it for me this time.

 

[Milland]

Like I said, worth it for me this time.

Good show, hope the parts behave themselves going forward.

 

[Houndogforever]

Good show, hope the parts behave themselves going forward.

Well, I've added a locating tool to set the part against to ensure location.
I've also added a 1/8" deep periphery cut and a hard stop to open up and visually ensure it is centered up properly.
This was a 100% my fault for locating the part wrong and the 1/2" carbide end mill was stronger than the .275 dia pull stud.

 

[Rick_H]

I think I am going to go thru my tooling and find any of the older, standard Mari tool studs and make sure they are only in 1/4" or smaller tool holders so the tools are smaller than the stud. If they show any brinelling I will replace them all.

I will continue to use the maritool High Strength pull studs but I may look into some others too.

We were advised to go for big kaiser or nikken by Fanuc for our robo, they didnÂ’t seem at all concerned about pullstud issues when I asked - in the UK I think most go for the above with no real quality alternative outside of shipping in from USA etc and the big kaiser weren’t expensive at all.

 

[wheelieking71]

Yeah right MF - Maritool pull stud broke and trashed the spindle. I noticed he quit selling the standard ones now. They make good tools but lousy studs.

There is a thread from about two years ago that went totally off the rails that has some broken stud pictures. I think what happened is his heat treater screwed up and Frank just went into full defense mode. He has a good business and some good tools but we just don't buy studs from them anymore.

Bullshit. I saw the pics. That part lifted. I (and others) asked you for pics of the part, and jaws, I don't know how many times.
But you just disappeared. You would provide no evidence that could possibly have pointed to a mistake on your end.
If you are going to throw somebody under the buss like that? You best be able to back that shit up! All you had was a broken stud.
If you were SOOOO confident, you would have gladly supplied the other evidence requested. But you just ghosted instead.

 

[Ianagos]

Bullshit. I saw the pics. That part lifted. I (and others) asked you for pics of the part, and jaws, I don't know how many times.
But you just disappeared. You would provide no evidence that could possibly have pointed to a mistake on your end.
If you are going to throw somebody under the buss like that? You best be able to back that shit up! All you had was a broken stud.
If you were SOOOO confident, you would have gladly supplied the other evidence requested. But you just ghosted instead.

Wheelie you run brothers are you using maritool studs?

Could you look at my pictures above and see if you think that is normal?

I did call maritool they didn’t seem too concerned but just asked me to ship the studs back to them. I will because I want them to make a better product and we will see if they care. But it’s a lot of hassle on my end for sure.

 

[DavidScott]

Wheelie you run brothers are you using maritool studs?

Could you look at my pictures above and see if you think that is normal?

I did call maritool they didn’t seem too concerned but just asked me to ship the studs back to them. I will because I want them to make a better product and we will see if they care. But it’s a lot of hassle on my end for sure.

Those divots in the Maritool pull stud are absolutely abnormal. I have pullstuds that are up to 17 years old in a 30 taper mill with around 500lbs drawbar tension and the divots are no deeper than your TJ Davies stud.

 

[trochoidalpath]

I went and checked all my pull studs -- about evenly split between Maritool, JM, or NT. None of them have any wear like what that scary photo shows. Most of them just have very light dimples, just enough to catch the light differently.

 

[wheelieking71]

Wheelie you run brothers are you using maritool studs?

Could you look at my pictures above and see if you think that is normal?

I do have a pile of Mari studs. I run (ran, I'm pretty much dead in the water right now) a mix of Mari and JM.
If I'm being 100% honest, I feel the JM are higher quality (sorry Frank!).
But, you pay for it. Small price to pay if you ask me. I was sad when Frank stopped carrying JM's studs because I absolutely LOVE his business model!
Last time I bought JM studs I had to "jump through the hoops". Fuck that, what year is it now?
I use them (studs) strategically. Drilling? Tapping? Tiny end-mill? Mari is fine. Anything that raises an eyebrow on the BT30 "iffy-meter" gets a JM.
And I am a huge supporter of the JM philosophy of getting the threads deeper in the taper! Anything less is a cost cutting measure!
As the meme with the guy at the lemonade stand table goes: "prove me wrong".

I'll take a look at some studs tomorrow and report back.

 

[Houndogforever]

I placed an order for 30 of the JM pull studs. That was about $1200

I have a dozen of the maritool HS studs and I am moving them all into 3/8" max capacity tool holder.

Loctite and 15ft/lbs tight.

Are there any sub $20 BT30 pull studs that are a quality product for max 3/8 end mills?

I saw that Bigtoy recommended Nordicor, which are only about $12 each. Anybody else have experience on that brand?

 

[plastikdreams]

Dude...you know they break, why cheap out?