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Doosan vs Matsuura, DVF5000 AWC12 vs MX330PC10

cornerRad

Plastic
Joined
May 7, 2021
Looking to acquire a new 5 axis with automation. I recently got quotes from both Doosan (DNS) and Matsuura and I was surprised how close they are in price.

The DVF with AWC is only 10% cheaper than the Matsuura MX330 PC10 with 500k being the average price between them.

I always thought the reputation of DNS was more entry/mid level and Matsuura love to talk about how everything is built to last 20+ years, hand scraped castings, yada yada.

Which brand do you prefer? Which machine do you prefer?

The quotes for both are pretty much fully loaded.

Biggest difference is MX has scales on all 5 axis, DVF only X,Y,Z. MX is a 20k, DVF is 18k. The capto pallets on the MX are smaller but claims a slightly bigger work envelope.
 
Do both have the same number of pallets?
OK, I used to work for DNS so I'm a little biased, but I can tell you that the machine is a tremendous value for the money. Nice, fine grain castings, all Fanuc motors and drives. Brand name switchgear and components everywhere and great parts/support. Service is very strong.

Matsuura is a good machine, no doubt about it. You would be well served by it as well.
 
Do both have the same number of pallets?
OK, I used to work for DNS so I'm a little biased, but I can tell you that the machine is a tremendous value for the money. Nice, fine grain castings, all Fanuc motors and drives. Brand name switchgear and components everywhere and great parts/support. Service is very strong.

Matsuura is a good machine, no doubt about it. You would be well served by it as well.
I just replied to an Ellison email the other day inviting me to a machine show asking if their service had improved. I have not enjoyed working with them, and now avoid it. I prefer to contact DNS (Doosan) directly if I have questions on service. They are much more versed on the DVF line and give me correct info.
 
I just replied to an Ellison email the other day inviting me to a machine show asking if their service had improved. I have not enjoyed working with them, and now avoid it. I prefer to contact DNS (Doosan) directly if I have questions on service. They are much more versed on the DVF line and give me correct info.
Thankfully, the DN office will gladly accept calls directly from customers. Sorry to have heard about Ellison like that. Very unfortunate.
 
If you are looking at matsuura, you may want to take a look at the quaser UX500APC. I believe they can be optioned with the matsu spindle. Quaser makes some of the matsu line, not sure about the 5 axis tho. I think MariTool on here has a quaser he was happy with. We dont run 5 axis here, so its a different animal but we looked at the doosans and just about everyone for that matter. These days the biggest thing i look at is support.
 
The quasar is an interesting option. Wasn't really on my radar.

Isn't the main issue with Matsuura's their spindles. Only seem to be getting 15,000 hours out of the air-grease 15k units, gonna find out eventually on the 20ks since just got one of those running a project lights out. All older vintage 2008-2011 but don't think the design has changed much.
 
The quasar is an interesting option. Wasn't really on my radar.

Isn't the main issue with Matsuura's their spindles. Only seem to be getting 15,000 hours out of the air-grease 15k units, gonna find out eventually on the 20ks since just got one of those running a project lights out. All older vintage 2008-2011 but don't think the design has changed much.
I spoke to Matsuura about that and their claim is that was due to people not properly warming up the spindles first.

Now they have added a software lock to limit max rpm until it's been warmed up and a startup timer so you can program the machine to turn itself on in the morning and warm up the spindle before you get to work.
 
I mean we were pricing out 3 axis vmc, doosan, matsu, quaser, okuma....ended up getting a yama seiki which for what we do has been stellar, key for us was we needed a large table in a small foot print and needed it in stock ASAP with options we needed so it made its own decision in the end, however out of the others, the price point on the quaser was really nice with all the features it had, and most everythig came standard, wasnt like buying a haas where you need to add every option. And they had like 50 different spindle options which was crazy.
 
We’re based in Taiwan, don’t own a quasar, but considered buying their VMC’s, HMC’s and 5 axis offering in the last two years.

Local shops that owned recent Quasars advised me not to pick any up. Showed me some issues, the most notable is some serious finishing issues with face milling on 3 axis VMC’s. They used to be known as arguably the best local machines. A close friend who works for a big company headed a project about 8 years ago and did extensive tests between the big local MTB’s, Quasar came out on top. Recently it’s being said as the younger generation took over they replaced a lot of the old crew, and things haven’t been the same ever since.

However all of the above could be attributed to other factors and personal opinions of those I speak with. The biggest reason we didn’t buy any Quasar’s was the local dealer for us sells Quasar and Matsuura. They admitted the Quasars have many more minor issues they need to straighten out regularly, compared to the Matsuura’s that just run and keep running more or less. We ended up going Mazak for horizontal, Brothers for verticals and Mikron for 5 axis.

Have you considered the Mill E 500U with pallet pool? For us the pricing is not that far off from the MX-330 when we quoted it out, with room to negotiate if I let them tour potential customers. We ended up buying single pallet Mill E 700U show room machine thou, as the industry here is the slowest it’s ever been and the price was too good to pass up.

The Mikron has Heidenhain which is nice, machine hasn’t had any issues, service has been stellar. I had some doubts about their 1 year old show machine spindle so they simply just extended it to 18 months or 8,000 hours which ever comes first. Accuracy has been above my expectation for the RAM design that many have issues with. The Strep-Tec spindle has really impressed thus far as well.

Downsides are 60 tools is low for a pallet pool, and swapping tools outside of the machine pretty much doesn’t work at all. Loading the tools in spindle is just time consuming and out dated. When setting a fixed position tool for large tool diameters, it’s the slowest machine I’ve ever worked with. Chip to chip for those fixed tools is easily 30+ seconds for our 30 tool machine. I’d be concerned with how slow the 60 tool machine would be if the tool carousel is the same design. Makes my 20 year old YCM super max look fast. The machine also seems to ‘think’ about what it’s going to do next. A lot of odd pauses during tool changes, homing, tool breakage check, table reorientation and what not, really does add up in production. But maybe I’m just accustomed used to high production machines that ZIP about, and I should be happy picking up the Mikron for less than a Quasar of the same spec.
 
Sorry, I realize I misworded my response a bit. I actually have no idea if 15k hours of high speed spindle running is reasonable, never able to get a comparison from other MTBs. They are never willing to put a number to it and haven't personally run any others up that many hours to find out for myself. That might be totally reasonable since the amount of money a high speed spindle makes in 15k hours is..... a lot..

Back to the thread topic at hand.

Honestly think both machines will perform similarly, build quality on the Matsuura will be a bit better but might not impact real world pefromance that much.
 








 
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