help needed with shop sale

[group 5]

Well, I'm pushing the big "eight-oh" and sadly need to sell my equipment. I did prototype work for the commercial aircraft industry from my basement. The "stars" of the shop are a Deckel FP4M (probably the nicest on the planet) and a Schaublin 160 (also very nice). Lots of support equipment, all Swiss or German, except the Hardinge chucker. As you all know, being a prototype shop, I have to have lots of measuring instruments, cutters, etc. I would like to sell the shop complete. Maybe 200K invested, sell for 75K.
Any thoughts?

 

[j-holland]

Well, I'm pushing the big "eight-oh" and sadly need to sell my equipment. I did prototype work for the commercial aircraft industry from my basement. The "stars" of the shop are a Deckel FP4M (probably the nicest on the planet) and a Schaublin 160 (also very nice). Lots of support equipment, all Swiss or German, except the Hardinge chucker. As you all know, being a prototype shop, I have to have lots of measuring instruments, cutters, etc. I would like to sell the shop complete. Maybe 200K invested, sell for 75K.
Any thoughts?

photos please

 

[john.k]

Very unlikely you will get better than a factory clearance agents offer on the lot ...........You are in a good position to show the machines working,and sell them individually for realistic prices.....the question may be access.

 

[rimcanyon]

Think about what your marketplace looks like when you sell a shop in its entirety. You are either trying to sell it to the one person on the planet who knows the value of and wants the entire set of tooling, or you are trying to sell it to someone trying to make a buck by reselling the items one at a time, so you don't have to do it yourself. The third alternative is owning it until you die, then having whoever manages your estate try and find someone to haul it all away without having to pay for the dump fees.

 

[Superbowl]

You are unlikely to find someone who wants to buy it all, move it from your basement, and has a spare $75,000 sitting around.

To get decent prices you need to break it up and sell things individually. It's a lot of work dealing with all those people, but it's the only way to get top dollar.

 

[group 5]

Thanks all for your advice. A local dealer has offered me 45K, and you know he expects to double his money. I will try to post some photos, but have failed in the past. The FP4M has basically every option, boring head, slotting head, riser, spiral milling attachment, high speed head, plane table, universal table, indexing head, and a grinding head. The 160 is also very well equipped.
Just a quick note about who has 75K lying around (which kind of makes me crazy), watch any of the car auctions.

 

[group 5]

ho

 

[group 5]

 

[Donkey Hotey]

Very nice looking machines. Take the $45K and run for your life. I see maybe $20-25K there between the two of them. Ask yourself who's going to buy them--specifically. I'm not trying to be insulting. I'd love to have both but, if they were mine, I couldn't see getting more than that or who would buy them. What other equipment is going with this that fills out another $20-25K of value?

 

[Superbowl]

Just a quick note about who has 75K lying around (which kind of makes me crazy), watch any of the car auctions.

Classic cars are a completely different animal. The buyers are generally well heeled guys who want to drive them around to shows, to relive their younger days, and show off. The cars have a very well known resale value so are easily resold and there are tens of millions of guys who covet such cars.. No one is buying those old cars to make money driving for Uber.

Your stuff does not have a well known value like a classic car. It is not a single item, but a large collection. A buyer for all of it would be someone looking to make money with it, which is hard to do in the days of cnc. The universe of buyers for all your stuff in one shot is infinitely smaller than the buyer pool for a classic car. Everyone drives, very, very ,very few run a manual machine shop.
Hobby guys, the largest pool of buyers for old manual machines, as a rule don't have $75k lying around to buy your shop. Likewise young machinists, just starting out, don't have $75k lying around either. Experienced successful machinists who do have and are willing to invest $75k in their business want more cnc machines because that's how they got successful, not from turning handles.

 

[thanvg]

Thank you for the pictures, such lovely machines!

I sympathize with you, it must feel very strange to have machines of such value (machining value) and having trouble finding someone to appreciate them. I guess if you try to sell everything separately might get you some money back, but still....in Europe we see Deckels on sale for 20k but I am not sure if they are actually being sold. There are also people in Europe buying new or reconditioned lathes for 30k, a mint 160 could get that I suppose, but one needs to be very patient.

It seems that low end machines are much more of a 'safe investment' than high end ones. If you pay 5k for a BP you'll get 5k next day if you try to sell it. If you pay 20k for a Deckel, it might take years till you find the right buyer...

Good luck again, wish I had the money, I wouldn't blink...

BR,
Thanos

 

[Martin P]

Very nice looking machines. Take the $45K and run for your life. I see maybe $20-25K there between the two of them. Ask yourself who's going to buy them--specifically. I'm not trying to be insulting. I'd love to have both but, if they were mine, I couldn't see getting more than that or who would buy them. What other equipment is going with this that fills out another $20-25K of value?

I see about $20k EACH! (if complete and good)
Of course not on Craigs List tomorrow, but given some time. These are unique and none are on offer. The more you rush, the cheaper it gets. Obviously.
I need a wiring diagram for that lathe.....

 

[Donkey Hotey]

I see about $20k EACH! (if complete and good)
Of course not on Craigs List tomorrow, but given some time. These are unique and none are on offer. The more you rush, the cheaper it gets. Obviously.
I need a wiring diagram for that lathe.....

Maybe in Germany but, these are in Los Angeles. I looked nationwide (US) on CL and Bookface and the most expensive manual Deckel I could find was asking $5,000. No, it wasn't in as nice condition. That's why I doubled my estimates. $20K for both is the doubled estimate. If he had to sell them in a month, I don't think they'd even get that much without a huge stroke of luck.

 

[True North]

How can people be assigning value when the guy hasn’t listed or shown all tooling included? Just looking around my shop, tooling per machine is easily twice the value of each of my machines.

Imo, what speed the guy needs to sell will determine price.

 

[Peter from Holland]

The value of the 160 depends greatly how well rebuild it is
If done according schaublin standards you can use it as a manual hard turning lathe and then perhaps you get that kind of money Perhpas yes
If it is like this or better I would document the tests and show it
Measurements are in mm obvious

 

[group 5]

thanks, Peter I'll check the tolerances. I think I'm going to "pull the trigger" on the 45K. It's hard letting go of these tools that have been such a big part of my life, and have been a joy to work with.
Also going away for the 45K are there Miller welders; Aeorwave, Mig and plasma...Optima drill grinder, finishing mill (unused), GK21 and Hardinge chucker (both worthless, I know, still nice machines), belt sander, grinder, Christen cutter grinder with optics, Abene VHF-3, Leitz dividing head, four Lista cabinets with misc tools and instruments.

 

[True North]

Maybe the people giving low ball estimates now have more confidence in 45k. I would actually believe worth more. And I’m not an old car guy.

Wouldn’t mind seeing pics of the other stuff.

 

[joaquin suave]

Just a crazy thought... Why don't you see if you could auction your shop on BAT ( bring a trailer) ?

 

[Donkey Hotey]

thanks, Peter I'll check the tolerances. I think I'm going to "pull the trigger" on the 45K. It's hard letting go of these tools that have been such a big part of my life, and have been a joy to work with.
Also going away for the 45K are there Miller welders; Aeorwave, Mig and plasma...Optima drill grinder, finishing mill (unused), GK21 and Hardinge chucker (both worthless, I know, still nice machines), belt sander, grinder, Christen cutter grinder with optics, Abene VHF-3, Leitz dividing head, four Lista cabinets with misc tools and instruments.

That's a pretty substantial list of expensive things to forget mentioning in the first post.

$45K is probably a fair dealer price. Have you tried listing them on CL, individually? There will be people absolutely dying for some of that equipment. Welders might not have any interest in your machine stuff, machine guys might already have welders, etc. If I had the space and money, I'd upgrade my knee mill to your FP4M. There will be people who want bits of that and will give them good homes.

 

[marcsO]

Saw the mention of money and cars, collectable cars are bought by people who have money, appreciate a classic and ultimately can drive it too, whilst there are collectors of machinery this market is no where near as popular so finding someone to part with 75K for some machinery, albeit fantastic condition by the look of it is going to be be mighty hard, these 'manual' machines are not what the younger generation aspire to, its all about new technology and not oily hands now sadly.

Whilst my 135 is no 160 and it was is 'average condition' I paid well under 2K for it, use the 45K to buy an e-type jag which can be enjoyed for many years ahead and probably wont depreciate much either