I keep hearing that this winter will be bad for manufacturing in Europe.

[DDoug]

To get Social security back in the black is very simple. Just tax all incomes equal for social security including the income above $150,000. I think elon musk should pay more to SS then a city cop does. Just keep the payout limit the same. They charge mansions more for property tax don't they? After all why should license fees be higher for a Ferrari or Rolls Royce then a twenty year old Ford. Seems unfair to charge more for what is basically the same thing.
Bill D

So paying more for the same return is somehow following the constitution ?
On that same note, do you think the residents of Puerto Rico should get SS ?

 

[standardparts]

So paying more for the same return is somehow following the constitution ?
On that same note, do you think the residents of Puerto Rico should get SS ?

Citizens of Puerto Rico pay into, and collect social security...don't they?

 

[DDoug]

Citizens of Puerto Rico pay into, and collect social security...don't they?

You might want to read the supreme court's cases from this summer.

 

[michiganbuck]

The old debate to legalize drugs.. partly because the low price of drugs would take criminals out of the business.
but the pot is so expensive that now more criminals are in the business.

Seems the movie Dumb and Dumber is about governments.
If the Ukraine situation can be resolved the stock market likely will go up 30%
If not Wall Street could become a pile of bricks.

 

[michiganbuck]

In a lot of the Eurozone ,VAT (sales tax) is at a 20-25% rate,and the governments still needs lots of extra taxes like heavy gasoline excise,alcohol taxes of up to 100%,gambling tax etc ,etc,and cant make do with that ,and so income tax and inheritance tax at high rates is also added to the revenue. .....makes a 30 % sales tax look like gimme.

The government will never have enough money.. they would throw it in the dumpster just to say they need more.
I think the 30% sales tax is just a rip-off to the working guy making $70k or so. He/she will pay sales tax on most of his income while the guy making 300K or 3 million plus will only pay tax on what he /she spends on things and put half his income in the bank.
Fair tax might be a 10% tax on gross pay with no deduction, tax dodges, or calling a business expense if not 70% business use.
but the grubbers in Washington benefit from tax dodges as they are, so don't ever expect a fair tax for the working man.

Those grubbers take a $175k job and become a multi-millionaire in a few years, go figure.

 

[Bill D]

So paying more for the same return is somehow following the constitution ?
On that same note, do you think the residents of Puerto Rico should get SS ?

That is how property tax works today. It is not priced per dwelling it is priced per value of each property. A $200,000 house in the ghetto pays less then a five million mansion in the suburbs. The ghetto house probably costs more to police the neighbor hood and maintain older utilities.
Bill D.

 

[DDoug]

That is how property tax works today. It is not priced per dwelling it is priced per value of each property. A $200,000 house in the ghetto pays less then a five million mansion in the suburbs. The ghetto house probably costs more to police the neighbor hood and maintain older utilities.
Bill D.

And you think this is fair somehow ?
How about "Payment for services rendered" ?

 

[Bill D]

Oakland California has. a city tax on marajuana. they are considering lowering the tax rate. too many illegal sellers paying no taxes of any sort.
Bill D

 

[Ries]

So paying more for the same return is somehow following the constitution ?
On that same note, do you think the residents of Puerto Rico should get SS ?

Social Security is not about getting a return. Its not, and never was, a savings plan. My social security tax I pay this year goes to pay retirees right now. You can pay all your life, and die a day after you start collecting, and you dont get a refund. Or you can pay ten grand in total, and live to 100 and collect 20 times what you paid. so, yeah, absolutely, musk should pay a percentage, the same percentage you or I pay. (Strangely enough, some of us both pay and collect at the same time).

 

[BoxcarPete]

Scial Security is not about getting a return. Its not, and never was, a savings plan. My social security tax I pay this year goes to pay retirees right now. You can pay all your life, and die a day after you start collecting, and you dont get a refund. Or you can pay ten grand in total, and live to 100 and collect 20 times what you paid. so, yeah, absolutely, musk should pay a percentage, the same percentage you or I pay. (Strangely enough, some of us both pay and collect at the same time).

If it's not about getting a return, what is it about then??? My parents don't need it, I won't need it (in fact I'm planning for retirement assuming goose eggs from the program) and we could do a better job supporting my wife's parents with 15% of my salary than what they will get from SS. So who is the winner here?

 

[Ries]

If it's not about getting a return, what is it about then??? My parents don't need it, I won't need it (in fact I'm planning for retirement assuming goose eggs from the program) and we could do a better job supporting my wife's parents with 15% of my salary than what they will get from SS. So who is the winner here?

Social Security was designed so workers would contribute into a fund that pays for seniors today, and future workers would pay for them when they retire. Its a way for the community to support its elders, across the entire USA. Before it was put in place, a lot of old people froze and starved to death.
The "winners" are the majority of americans who earned the average wage, and could not save a nest egg for retirement, because there was nothing left after paying for food and rent.
The current median income in the US today is $31,000 a year.
Try paying rent and medical and food on that, if, for instance, you have two kids...
I know a lot of people in my rural county who, if they didnt get SS, would be dead in a month. The average cost of a 1 bedroom apartment is more than the minimum SS right now in much of the US.
Its about living in a civilised nation, where we all help each other- common decency.
If you dont need it, thats great- you can donate your social security checks to charity, and help those who do.
But charity alone doesnt feed and house the 66 million people who currently depend on SS. A few of em are well off, like some of us. Most are not, and barely scrape by on SS. I know a lot of people like that.
Current annual SS payments are about 1200 Billion dollars a year. Thats a whole lotta fives in the collection plate.

 

[Bill D]

If you marry, have kids and die at age 30 social security will pay something for the children. Do you think your kids should die due to your poor planning? Your five year old nest egg will be gone in a year or less. Yes it is a Ponzi Scheme. The first SS recipient paid into it for about one month before retiring.
Bill D

Monty Python's plan was to tax all foreigners living outside the country.

 

[BoxcarPete]

Ries, I get it, but at the same time all those people would have had a little more to go past rent and food if the SS tax weren't withheld from their wages. People die when they make mistakes or do stupid stuff, and poor financial planning doesn't seem to me like it should be an exception, especially because we can see it coming 30 or more years away. People push it off because SS exists, would they do something different if they knew it was up to them to provide for their own retirement?

If you marry, have kids and die at age 30 social security will pay something for the children. Do you think your kids should die due to your poor planning? Your five year old nest egg will be gone in a year or less. Yes it is a Ponzi Scheme. The first SS recipient paid into it for about one month before retiring.
Bill D

Monty Python's plan was to tax all foreigners living outside the country.

Now THIS I have a great answer for. If I keel over today, I should hope that a cool $2.5M floats my survivors long enough to figure out how to support themselves ($3M if the ol' lady goes down with me). Costs me about $100 per month, which is less than SS withholds from people below the poverty line. And this ain't a ponzi scheme, just good old fashioned gambling. NW Mutual and I have a friendly wager, $100/mo against a couple million, whether or not I die before age 55.

 

[Freedommachine]

If SS is so important, why can the government barrow money against it?

Like most government managed social programs, SS does more harm than good. Times are different, we need a much different approach.

People need to have a raw sense of responsibility over their own lives. We live in a society where you literally could not starve to death if you wanted to.

The consequences of poor financial planning, wastefulness and general irresponsibility used to be death. Old men had wisdom because you had to be wise in order to reach old age!

Today; you can live a life of maxed out credit cards, borrowing from 401k, home equity loans, repossessed vehicles, rented furniture and appliances, a pack of smokes and a 12 pack of beer a day.

When you retire, you can do a reverse mortgage to cover anything immediate. As long as Social security can keep you in beer and smokes, life is good... We all know more than one person who chooses to live this way. It is the result of living a life of low consequence and there is a very high probability their children will be the same way.

When life is stressful, some people quit trying. Everything becomes an excuse and they look for ways to get on disability or welfare. Those who can't, will in turn usually try for FMLA so they only have to work just enough to stay alive - seeking to do what is comfortable over what is prudent.

Social security has played a role in our society's ruin. We should be teaching people to be self reliant and that there are deadly consequences if you are not.

Children learn reading, writing and arithmetic from a young age. Our society views this as so crucial that we have developed standardized testing to ensure everyone can meet a certain expectation.

We do this to ensure the children will grow up to be productive members of society. How can they be productive if they don't know how to manage their own finances and prepare for each next step in life?

@Ries is right; social security is not a personal retirement fund. Tax returns are not "free money from the government" either. Although if you watch how many people live, that is exactly how they treat it.

 

[jim rozen]

"Prove me wrong..."

PLEASE PLEASE OH PLEASE let the republicans start the 'kill SS' plans!

Right after they float the 30 percent sales tax.

Rule one: when your opponents are drowning, be sure to hand them an anvil. Ha ha ha ha.

 

[Freedommachine]

"Prove me wrong..."

PLEASE PLEASE OH PLEASE let the republicans start the 'kill SS' plans!

Right after they float the 30 percent sales tax.

Rule one: when your opponents are drowning, be sure to hand them an anvil. Ha ha ha ha.

Pshh, they wouldn't dare take on a problem that complex. Anyone who even suggested such a thing would be run out of DC for life.

"My fellow Americans, we need to dismantle the false sense of security that is the social security tax. In it's place we will erect a new change of culture wherein all people learn to be financially responsible and accountable for their own future."

The lame stream media would have a field day with that.

The "build back better" "own nothing and be happy" future wherein the government owns and controls our entire existence for our own good is far more likely to obtain public support.

 

[jim rozen]

"We live in a society where you literally could not starve to death if you wanted to. " Yeah. because of social security. You sorta forgot about the depression eh. Also you forgot to explain how elderly people could not possibly die from lack of healthcare either, we don't NEED medicare or medicaid, right?

These are the gold standard for the dog-whistle for the republican base: SS, medicare, medicaid. The US was in such an economic cluster-fuck during the depression, no way they could hold that SS off. They fought tooth and nail to hold off medicare. OH MY GOD THE END OF DOCTORS AS WE KNOW IT was the mantra.

Republicans are great at pointing out how middle class folks should HATE having slightly poorer middle class folks get any kind of benefit because POOR PEOPLE WHO ARE EATING STEAKS AND DRIVING CADILLACS are getting *your* money.

One real figure of merit for a society is how they treat old people. Go head republicans. By all means, screw over elderly voters. Dare ya. Double dog dare ya.

 

[john.k]

What about elderly presidents?

 

[BoxcarPete]

"We live in a society where you literally could not starve to death if you wanted to. " Yeah. because of social security. You sorta forgot about the depression eh. Also you forgot to explain how elderly people could not possibly die from lack of healthcare either, we don't NEED medicare or medicaid, right?

These are the gold standard for the dog-whistle for the republican base: SS, medicare, medicaid. The US was in such an economic cluster-fuck during the depression, no way they could hold that SS off. They fought tooth and nail to hold off medicare. OH MY GOD THE END OF DOCTORS AS WE KNOW IT was the mantra.

Republicans are great at pointing out how middle class folks should HATE having slightly poorer middle class folks get any kind of benefit because POOR PEOPLE WHO ARE EATING STEAKS AND DRIVING CADILLACS are getting *your* money.

One real figure of merit for a society is how they treat old people. Go head republicans. By all means, screw over elderly voters. Dare ya. Double dog dare ya.

I bolded the part of your post that isn't nonsense for you. Medicare has in fact played a major role in the transition from healthcare being a career for doctors and nurses to a career for paper-pushers and bureaucrats. The average hospital employs more administrators than doctors and nurses combined now.

 

[Freedommachine]

It seems I've struck a nerve lol. I'm not sure why you think partisan politics has any place in the conversation though.

Yeah. because of social security. You sorta forgot about the depression eh.

Respectfully sir, you are incorrect.

I said "if you wanted to"... If someone informed your local government that there is cause for concern of your safety, the police would be there that day. An ambulance would take you to the hospital, they would give you an IV and force feed you. A social worker would be along shortly after to do an assessment.

We have WIC, food stamp programs and an endless supply of charitable organizations that do a fine job of helping people who really need it.

Who would ever advocate for not providing support to our elders? Well, other than the politicians who killed them by putting covid patients in nursing homes .

I still have living grandparents, my wife does as well. They would do just fine without SS, I would make sure of it... The same way other countries without a SS system do.

It's not 1932 anymore Jimmy. There were many factors that played a role in social suffering back then.

SS could be finished in one generation... If you were born after 01/01/24, you no longer collect but still have to pay. In exchange, you get access to a special investment account wherein you get guaranteed returns and a portion of interest collected on all federally managed debt. No tax on gains for the life of the original investor and make the accounts transferable to any beneficiary of the individuals choosing, indefinitely.

There ya go, no more SS and everyone is taken care of by the free market.