Kearney and Trecker and Milwaukee No. 2 rotary head milling machine.

[2 clicks low]

I bought some lathe parts off eBay. I stop to pick them up he had a milling machine I never saw before it was a Kearney and Trecker and Milwaukee No. 2 rotary head milling machine. Tool & Die Machine
I would like to know the years there were made, models, options, how useful are there?
I own a Bridgeport series I mill, most of the work I do is small projects,

How does Kearney and Trecker and Milwaukee number system work? I have spent a little time searching on this forum for information I have found some but would like more.

Thanks

 

[jackalope]

Johnoder will likely chime in here and answer your questions. He knows quite a bit about the date of manufacture and these machines in general.

I would love to have one in my shop

 

[mister honey]

The K&T 2D will have a serial number in a 12-3456 format.

Post this info and johnoder or ramsay1 can decode it for you.

Have you visited the Yahoo group:

KTMilwaukee : Kearney & Trecker

Mike

 

[johnoder]

I would like to know the years there were made, models, options, how useful are there?

Late thirties to late sixties for sure - there have been those from '39 here and I owned a '68. I expect there were some built in the seventies, too.

Options? Only thing I know of sort of like that is the later models had rapid for the knee. I suppose you could "option" to buy all the attachments or not, and I think there were a few differing spindle tapers offered. Oh - there were "big" and "small" table options, but I all I have ever run was the big table.

Very useful - but not in the CNC world. They did things with clever mechanical systems that were impossible on other manual machines, but CNC with maybe a fourth axis will run circles around them, and not require near as much operator smarts to do it.

They are fun to fool with, and they will definitely require you to do some thinking.


They do fun stuff like these holes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/2DKT/DCP_0689.jpg

I still have the slugs from those holes waiting to make something from them.


J.O.

 

[2 clicks low]

The correct name for these machines is Kearney and Trecker and Milwaukee No. 2D rotary head milling machine.

Are all these machines 2D or is there a variant?
What are the table sizes?
What are the desirable options?
What is a fair price?
What type of tooling is available, (I saw one mill had a power turn table).

 

[johnoder]

K&T was a milling machine maker with many models over the years. 2D was one of them. It was the only rotary head they made.

J.O.

 

[mister honey]

Originally, Milwaukee Milling Machines were manufactured in Milwaukee (naturally) by Kearney & Trecker. At some point in time, the official name became Kearney & Trecker Milwaukee.

Milling machines are/were manufactured in sizes, ie: a No. 1, No.2 etc. up through a No. 6 IIRC. The "number" is related to the table width & length and associated travels. The K&T Model D is a No. 2 size milling machine. The D is a model variation, as K&T did have the Model A, B and C Autometric milling, drilling & boring machines. I think the Autometric models predate the Model D by a very few years.

The Model D is typically referred to as a 2D Rotary Head Mill. The earliest sales brochure, that I have seen (circa 1939) simply states: Milwaukee Rotary Head Tool & Die Milling Machine.

The 2D table sizes were 16" X 30" and 16" X 36"

The options were few: the small & large table noted above, a coolant pump, an air pump, a rotary table drive housing for a 12" or 16" rotary table or Model H dividing head, the precision measuring attachments for the table & saddle and four unique tool attachments: a right angle milling head, a universal milling head, a cherrying attachment and a shaping/slotting attachment.

I'm unsure if the rapid traverse on the knee was ever an option or simply became a standard feature as the product matured. My 2D is a January 1944 unit, which was returned to the factory in 1969 and the rapid traverse feature was added. Early 2Ds did not have rapid traverse on the knee.

I paid $750 for mine and it was close to home. I've seen prices in the $3500+ range, depending upon condition, attachments and location. I recall one very rough example on ebay that went for less than $100.

Other PM members have stated that R8 tooling, 30NMTB tooling and the proprietary K&T collet system were in use at one time or another.

Mike

 

[ramsay1]

Knee Lift Motor

Hello: I talked to a former K&T employee of 28 years and he told me that the number one complaint from tool and die people was the effort required to raise the knee...I know mine is a pain to raise without it..That is why the power knee was added later..Mike

 

[Servicar rider]

I've had one of these for about rwo years. I just love it. I like the quick setups I can do and it is very accurate. The rotary head is very useful for raduis work and bolt patterns. Nothing else like it. I have three other mills and I like this one the best. Mine has the power knee, great feature as the knee is very heavy. The 3/4 horse spindle hasn't been a big deal for me but I think a practical machinist could come up with something? I had the motor out of mine when I changed the wiring to 220 from 440v. Not a big deal. Its fun to watch the spindle mechanism rotating from the top. Alot of moving parts not designed by a computer.
Jeff

 

[2 clicks low]

I found two kearney trecker 2d milling machine one has a large relay box and the other does not which one is easier to wirer up. I am using a rotary phase convert right now , I should have utility company three phase in a year or so.

 

[johnoder]

I think they all have MULTIPLE magnetic starters - I would expect these are more accessible in the big box.

J.O.

 

[GreasyMachines]

Gear change chart

Where can I get a photo or copy of the gear change chart for a K&T Milwaukee duplex model 1258
Thanks people!
[email protected]

 

[ramsay1]

I found two kearney trecker 2d milling machine one has a large relay box and the other does not which one is easier to wirer up. I am using a rotary phase convert right now , I should have utility company three phase in a year or so.

2D has a magnetic starter for each motor...Someone had changed all five of the motors on my 2d to single phase before I bought it.. I have other machines that are three phase though.. I was generating the third leg of my three phase for quite sometime then got three phase from the power company.. It was expensive because of the low demand but was worth it.. I am good for 50 hp, more if the transformer on the third leg is changed to a larger one...
Ramsay 1

 

[old_dave]

In doing some research on the K & T 2D rotary head milling machine I turned up this thread which I am resurrecting as I found some additional information that might be of interest. In my own files I found a letter from 1996 from a gentleman who worked at Kearney & Trecker for a number of years, starting as an apprentice in the early 1940's. He told me that this model was built as late as the mid-1970's; at that time at the rate of about 10 a year. Price was $81,000 and accessories could total $22,640. FWIW an on-line inflation calculator shows that in today's dollars the machine would be nearly $359,000 and the accessories a bit over $100,000. He ended with the comment: "EDM and CNC obsoleted this machine."
David

 

[Servicar rider]

$81,000 in the 70's? I have a friend who has one built in 1969 and the invoice he got from the former owner said $28,000? (Still alot of money in 1969) EDM and CNC might have made them hard to sell but I don't think they are obsolete. I used mine today to bore an old iron casting for a precision press fit. It was tried in a bridgeport with a boring head and kept knocking the tip off the boring bar. Obsolete 1958 K&T did it with an endmill no problem, right to size and nice finish too.
Jeff

 

[mccolld]

I have the original bill of sale for mine. $78,000 1958 dollars. I'm guessing that's like $800,000 (or more) today's dollars.

 

[alskdjfhg]

I have the original bill of sale for mine. $78,000 1958 dollars. I'm guessing that's like $800,000 (or more) today's dollars.

It's $641,953.51 according to the inflation calculator I found.

Still pretty significant.

 

[Servicar rider]

I know these were expensive machines, but I can't imagine anybody paying $78K for one in 1958? Please post a picture of your bill of sale. Those would have been tough to sell for that much money and they made more than a few?
Jeff

 

[ramsay1]

78K does seem to be a bit steep as they were around 90k when they were discontinued....From the beginning to the end, the 2D pretty much sold for the price of a good sized house.. Ramsay1

 

[mccolld]

You could buy a hell of a lot of house for 78k back then. House I grew up in was a fairly nice middle class home and we paid about 18k in '70.