Lodge and Shipley 20” lathe?

[Travismachine]

Hi guys I’m a newbie to the page, but I just bought a lodge and Shipley lathe 20” and I’m trying to find any info on it, diagrams mfg date. Operating manual. Really anything would be helpful I found the serial number which is 11691 with a patented date of April 10th 1984. She’s an old one but I think it will be a good one if I can tune her in right. Currently some of the gears on the manual feed and screw feed are broke off. So I’m trieng to find a diagram to make sure I’m not missing anything. I will include pics so maybe that will help. Thanks for any advice

 

[johnoder]

Hi guys I’m a newbie to the page, but I just bought a lodge and Shipley lathe 20” and I’m trying to find any info on it, diagrams mfg date. Operating manual. Really anything would be helpful I found the serial number which is 11691 with a patented date of April 10th 1984. She’s an old one but I think it will be a good one if I can tune her in right. Currently some of the gears on the manual feed and screw feed are broke off. So I’m trieng to find a diagram to make sure I’m not missing anything. I will include pics so maybe that will help. Thanks for any advice

Patent Head from the early nineteen teens. There likely is no "how to" pubs in those days. See the 1910 catalog from L&S. Your patent is from 1894, not 1984

1905 catalog thanks to Greg Menke

http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/docs/lodge/lodgeshipley-catalog-R-1905.pdf

Add another

 

[marka12161]

The great thing about this forum is the diversity of interestes, experience and expertise of the members. Thes old machine tools are truly a thing of beauty and a bit of history in their own right. Having said that, my advice before you get too far down the restoration road on this machine is to be clear in your own mind what your objectives are. If you are the type of person who enjoys the challenge of what could/probably be a multi-year resoration project and all the research and resourcefulness required to properly restore that machine, then it looks to be a good candidate. However, if your objective is to get the machine into service in relative short order, then in my opinion, you've got a fairly steep hill to climb and you may want to find a different machine before you throw any more money at it. Broken gears could be an indication of other problems that you may not want to tackle. Good luck

 

[Travismachine]

Patent Head from the early nineteen teens. There no "how to" pubs in those days. See the 1910 catalog from L&S. Your patent is from 1894, not 1984

1905 catalog thanks to Greg Menke

http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/docs/lodge/lodgeshipley-catalog-R-1905.pdf

Cool thanks and yeah that was supposed to say 1894, typo

 

[Travismachine]

The great thing about this forum is the diversity of interestes, experience and expertise of the members. Thes old machine tools are truly a thing of beauty and a bit of history in their own right. Having said that, my advice before you get too far down the restoration road on this machine is to be clear in your own mind what your objectives are. If you are the type of person who enjoys the challenge of what could/probably be a multi-year resoration project and all the research and resourcefulness required to properly restore that machine, then it looks to be a good candidate. However, if your objective is to get the machine into service in relative short order, then in my opinion, you've got a fairly steep hill to climb and you may want to find a different machine before you throw any more money at it. Broken gears could be an indication of other problems that you may not want to tackle. Good luck

Thank you sir but yeah I do enjoy a good challenge I’m not really wanting to restore it just fix the few problems it has a do a little hobby machining. But if it leads me down a rabbit hole then that’s a lesson learned. I got it cheap and if all else fails it will bring good at the scrap yard. Appreciate your advice and luck I will need.

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

I have a 20" Patent Head from 1913. I also have a bunch of early 20s 20" selective head parts I saved from one we scrapped. Let me know what parts you need, I may have something that will work.

 

[M.B. Naegle]

It looks like it has a Western gearbox over the headstock? If so I've got one like it that came with my Flather lathe. It's a period upgrade to take the old overhead belt driven lathes and make them locally powered, as well as giving you 4 extra speeds. Since it's paired with a gear-head lathe it would be interesting to see how many speed options you have in total.

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

It looks like it has a Western gearbox over the headstock? If so I've got one like it that came with my Flather lathe. It's a period upgrade to take the old overhead belt driven lathes and make them locally powered, as well as giving you 4 extra speeds. Since it's paired with a gear-head lathe it would be interesting to see how many speed options you have in total.

The patent head isn't really a geared head. The lathe itself has only three speeds (open belt and two back gear ranges). L&S originally provided an overhead geared countershaft that could be configured for three or six speeds (and must have made quite a racket). Every patent head lathe I've seen has been converted using an aftermarket gearbox (Lima, Drive All, Uni-Drive et. al.).

The design of the patent head was rooted in maximizing the power transmission of the belt technology available at the time. The single flat belt used to transmit power from the countershaft could be much wider than those usually used on cone head lathes. The driven pulley in the headstock runs in its own set of bearings, and is insulated from the spindle, which allowed much higher belt tension with no effect on spindle alignment. It was a good system, but the development of fully geared headstocks and V belt drives made it obsolete fairly quickly. L&S seems to have introduced them around 1903, and by 1916 they are gone from the catalogs in favor of the selective head.

 

[johnoder]

The patent head isn't really a geared head. The lathe itself has only three speeds (open belt and two back gear ranges). L&S originally provided an overhead geared countershaft that could be configured for three or six speeds (and must have made quite a racket). Every patent head lathe I've seen has been converted using an aftermarket gearbox (Lima, Drive All, Uni-Drive et. al.).

The design of the patent head was rooted in maximizing the power transmission of the belt technology available at the time. The single flat belt used to transmit power from the countershaft could be much wider than those usually used on cone head lathes. The driven pulley in the headstock runs in its own set of bearings, and is insulated from the spindle, which allowed much higher belt tension with no effect on spindle alignment. It was a good system, but the development of fully geared headstocks and V belt drives made it obsolete fairly quickly. L&S seems to have introduced them around 1903, and by 1916 they are gone from the catalogs in favor of the selective head.

Here is a scan from 1902 on their "Variator". I'll see if I can scan the page in the 1910 catalog of the enormous cast iron three speed hanging on the ceiling. Added the 1910 Patent Head scans. Somewhere there is a later and more complete cast iron cover. No, the variator was not used with the three speed in the most recent scans. Andy provided the Variator booklet many years ago - Thanks Andy!

 

[Travismachine]

I have a 20" Patent Head from 1913. I also have a bunch of early 20s 20" selective head parts I saved from one we scrapped. Let me know what parts you need, I may have something that will work.

Thank a lot right now I’m trying to make some teeth on the apron gear it’s a 70 tooth gear that hooks to the forward and back wheel not sure what it’s called but that’s the first goal. I just got a 10hp 3 phase motor to put on it and see if she will even roll over. But I deff appreciate the offer and may very well be hitting you up on that stuff I do think there is a gear missing in the apron I’ll take a pic tomorrow and see if I can show which gear that may be missing.

 

[Travismachine]

The patent head isn't really a geared head. The lathe itself has only three speeds (open belt and two back gear ranges). L&S originally provided an overhead geared countershaft that could be configured for three or six speeds (and must have made quite a racket). Every patent head lathe I've seen has been converted using an aftermarket gearbox (Lima, Drive All, Uni-Drive et. al.).

The design of the patent head was rooted in maximizing the power transmission of the belt technology available at the time. The single flat belt used to transmit power from the countershaft could be much wider than those usually used on cone head lathes. The driven pulley in the headstock runs in its own set of bearings, and is insulated from the spindle, which allowed much higher belt tension with no effect on spindle alignment. It was a good system, but the development of fully geared headstocks and V belt drives made it obsolete fairly quickly. L&S seems to have introduced them around 1903, and by 1916 they are gone from the catalogs in favor of the selective head.

Wow great info. Would you happen to know what speeds it does have. And when you speak of aftermarket gearboxes are you talking about replacing the 4 speed trans with something with more speeds or would this be inside the lathe meaning different gearing.

 

[Travismachine]

Wow great info. Would you happen to know what speeds it does have. And when you speak of aftermarket gearboxes are you talking about replacing the 4 speed trans with something with more speeds or would this be inside the lathe meaning different gearing.

Sorry to be so dumb to the fact as I just don’t know much about this monster. Thanks for the info

 

[johnoder]

Sorry to be so dumb to the fact as I just don’t know much about this monster. Thanks for the info

1910 catalog says the 20" came with speeds 14 to 372. This would have been with the ceiling mounted 3 speed countershaft ( see my post above). It says it had 18 speeds. Added scans

Add on...note FEED is shown in "threads" not INCHES PER Minute - typical of old timey lathes

 

[Travismachine]

I have a 20" Patent Head from 1913. I also have a bunch of early 20s 20" selective head parts I saved from one we scrapped. Let me know what parts you need, I may have something that will work.

Hey Andy I’ve been slowly getting this thing moving in the right direction. But have hit a few hiccups as you may imagine. You say you might have some spare parts would you happen to have any parts for the apron gearing, sleeves exc? I’m looking for the cross feed clutch gear seen in the photo very bottom left side it’s a small double gear. mine is missing the second gear. thanks in advance