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Maho 400E 1988, Philips 432, error I01 I01

blablinsky

Plastic
Joined
Jan 28, 2021
Hello guys,

***edit: sorry to post in wrong forum***

I've recently become a proud owner of the machine in the title, it was purchased as a working thing
and I'd like to make some chips, touching as little as possible (no retrofit this year :))

It seems to be in good state, the battery has been changed, the constants are on paper, the monitor is LCD,
the vertical guide looks beautiful with flowers all over the way. Some minor sheetmetal bents here and there.

Unfortunately the documentation is incomplete, only drawings, Schulungsunterlagen and a little spring book for it.
Not sure how many should there be, but I managed to download Heidenhain CNC3000 (Philips 432) manuals, thanks to THIS very forum
and several others for different machines from cncmanual.

Now here is my problem:

I have powered it up and everything started up correctly, all checks passed.
Then I pressed the button right to e-stop along with the 'clear' button.
As long as they were pressed, the pump worked, after releasing it stopped.
Tried several times.
Then I have chosen the X,Y,Z axes and touched the green button to home it.

It has homed, and displays 0,000, 0,000, 0,000 coordinates and the RP letters also.

And that's it.
Now there is a message: ERR I01 I01 displayed and I can do literally nothing.

I have read every single post on the forums and tried the magic combination from this place:
Deckel, Maho, Aciera, Abene Mills > Maho (Phillips432) graphics help please? - Page 2

(hydraulics > hydraulics AND clear > hydraulics AND clear HOLD)

Nothing happens, the screen does not change, the machine does not react.

From the online info I think it is the e-stop circuit because the limit switches has been reached.
There are several ways people approach this problem, by manually moving the axes, by switching homing directions
to get out of limit switches etc.

As I'm very new to the subject and know just next to nothing about these machines, I don't feel at home
with the idea of crushing the ballscrew by entering wrong direction.
I don't know how homing works, does it read the glass scale or just go and wait for the limit switch?

So the first question is what to do to solve this problem and the second is how it is even possible
that such a thing has appeared?
I don't get it, should I manually escape the switches every time I run the machine (no cranks here)?

Does anybody have operator's manual and wiring diagrams for this baby?
 

sneebot

Stainless
Joined
May 14, 2001
Location
Massachusetts
It's been awhile since I had a Maho... Depending on the machine it may have provisions on the axis motors to insert a hex key in the end so you can rotate it manually. If you are worried about moving it under power in the wrong direction just open up the axis until you can manually rotate the screw to get off the limit switch.

Maho did provide a way to do this under power. Usually there is a switch in electrical cabinet that will allow movement even if the machine has triggered a limit switch. You need two people or some tape because this is a momentary switch.
 

blablinsky

Plastic
Joined
Jan 28, 2021
Thanks,

I have moved horizontal axes off the limit switches by turning the pulleys, but it didn't help so it could be either Y axis or something mysterious (looks like somebody turned X motor axis with a flat key, there is no cap on it and the thread in the bore is damaged).

88MH400E_X_motor.jpg

The vertical Y axis is is immovable, ofcourse, but there are some switches in the cabinet, the label on one of them says:
"brake, Y-axis apply/release"

88MH400E_cabinet_1.jpg88MH400E_cabinet_2.jpg88MH400E_cabinet_switches.jpg

I suppose this turns off the brake :). I'll try to switch it today, as it is inside of the cabinet it probably should be switched with machine powered off.

What do the other two switches test run and machine constants?


I'm not sure where the "override e-stop" could be placed, it looks like it's not there, is it possible?


To drift the subject a bit more, there is also a punched tape with machine constants.

88MH400E_punched_tape.jpg

I wonder how it's supposed to be used these days.
 

blablinsky

Plastic
Joined
Jan 28, 2021
Thanks,

I have moved horizontal axes off the limit switches by turning the pulleys, but it didn't help so it could be either Y axis or something mysterious.
By the way it looks like somebody has been turning X motor axis with a flat key, there is no cap on it and the thread in the bore is damaged. Same with Y axis, Z has a cap.

88MH400E_X_motor.jpg

The vertical Y axis is is immovable, ofcourse, but there are some switches in the cabinet, the label on one of them says:
"brake, Y-axis apply/release"

88MH400E_cabinet_1.jpg

88MH400E_cabinet_2.jpg

88MH400E_cabinet_switches.jpg

I suppose this turns off the brake :). I'll try to switch it today, as it is inside of the cabinet it probably should be switched with machine powered off.

What do the other two switches test run and machine constants?


I'm not sure where the "override e-stop" could be placed, it looks like it's not there, is it possible?


To drift the subject a bit more, there is also a punched tape with machine constants.

88MH400E_punched_tape.jpg

I wonder how it's supposed to be used these days.
 

rotarySMP

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Location
Vienna Austria
You need a set of wiring diagrams, specific to your machine. Contact DMG, and give them your Wiring diagram number, it will be E-5xxx and is on the machine data plate.

If you were able to home, by holding the hyd start switch, what makes you think that an Axis has triggered an E-stop? I wouldn't start playing around with the vertical axis brake override at this point in your troubleshooting.

I don't know a lot about the Phillips 432, as I never got mine working, but error I01 is "Interface no powered" on the only 432 error list I have.

Since your machine is not latching, you need to look at the systems in that signal chain.

The on-latching relay is 19K1 on my 400E. You can test the relay by having someone hold the Hyd start button, while you push the button on the relay. As long as you hold the button on the relay, the oterh person should be able to release the Hyd button.

MAHO 28A1 relay board connection.jpg


19K1 Latching.jpg

The signal to energise that relay is output by the Phillips. You can probe that signal on terminal 209 (at least on my 400E, they are not all the same wiring).
I am not sure what internal Phillips logic inhibits that, but the Lube Oil float switch is a good place to start. They are often pretty pessimistic, so fill the lube oil to at least 50% full as a first step, and see if that fixes the problem.

E-Stop release is almost certainly required as well for that Phillips to set that signal.E-Stop senses the 24V rail.jpg

Working down that chain, if the MAHO pendant is not installed there should be a jumper ensuring continuity between terminal 264 and 204.
Next the signal crosses the three axis end stop switches. You can check continuity across 264-265 (X), 265-267 (Maho Y - Vertical) 267-268 (Z).

Next up is 3B1, It is a switch on the Hydraulic motor. Not sure what, probably overheat protection switch? Terminals 268-269.

Last in that chain are 7B1 and 7B2 which are the thermal switches monitoring the big DC transformers which power the Indramat. Probe then between Terminal 269-270.


Back to the On-latching circuit, the signal passes through 8B2/9B2 and 10B2, which are on the Axis motors. Probably overheat switches? Check for continuity between 209-210, then 210-211 and 211-212.

From there the signal runs over the Indramats "Ready" switch which can be probed between terminal 213-214, from there it runs over the LH most override switch on the 29A1 relay panel, before energsing 19K1.

[Edit] shame this forums picture size limit is so tiny, as they become unreadable.
Mark
 

blablinsky

Plastic
Joined
Jan 28, 2021
Hi Mark,

Thank you for an extensive explanation, could you email me larger photos of these schematics? They could be very similar or at least a step in good direction.
I have very limited documentation, no diagrams, no operator's manual, only drawings and schulungsunterlagen which are hard to put into life at this point.
I've already contacted DMG in Poland but without handshake :), will try german support on monday.

I have Philips 432 (CNC3000) manuals from Heidenhain website, but again no specific to my version.

The machine was in working state a few days before delivery so it should be something silly.
The oil levels are ok, I've checked them before running it for the first time. The pump was working while the buttons hyd and clear were being pressed, I ran it a few times.

Yesterday I started to disassemble the covers, there are chips in many places inside, screws left lying on the castings and things like that. It requires cleaning and clearing that mess.

Your youtube videos are a great inspiration, I watched "Maho in the home shop" many times and still remember the chill down my spine as you have opened the cabinet and started explaining the wires.
Now the wires finally got me :)

Peter
 

blablinsky

Plastic
Joined
Jan 28, 2021
Ok, I think I've got it.
After one of the first runs, I switched the machine off when it was on the limit switches, all the switches was "clicked in" so the e-stop circuit was open.
After starting it up with all limit switches hit, the error I01 I01 didn't want to disappear, pushing the hyd start switch was doing completely nothing.
I managed to move the horizontal axes out of the switches.

As I noticed that the Y limit switch is hit too, I unscrewed it and started the Maho. Of course the E01 error was still on, but pressing the hyd button reacts with clicking of some relay or other contraption.
I will have more time in the evening and will try to pull up the Y axis to get off the switch and start the machine.
Is it safe to switch the Y brake release knob or should the bed be supported?

I'm not sure what the start procedure should look like, does it require pressing the sequence of buttons (hydraulics > hydraulics AND clear > hydraulics AND clear HOLD) and then enter on three axes and green run button?
I don't have any operating or maintenance manual for it and would greatly appreciate any help.
If anybody has the manual for 400E no matter the language it would be great.

I'm a bit worried about pressing wrong buttons and sending it to the moon through the roof of my garage.
 

rotarySMP

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Location
Vienna Austria
You can bridge an end stop with a jumper across the terminals listed above. You have to be extremely careful of how you jog off those, as you would have no protection if you go the wrong way.
Mark
 

petar712

Plastic
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
I would recommend you to watch this video, and also all videos on his channel. His explanations are very good and if you understand a bit german will be very helpful.

PS
If you don't understand what he is saying I will translate the whole video for you in PM.
 

blablinsky

Plastic
Joined
Jan 28, 2021
Everything is fine, the reason of the problem was simple, I've hit emergency stop while the machine was on limit switches.
Normally it hits the switches and retracts, by hitting the mushroom I prevented the retraction and it stayed on the switches, producing ERR I01 I01 after restarting.

Moving horizontal axes out of the switches was simple, after removing the covers I turned the pulleys, the vertical one has a brake and was immovable. When the machine was offline I switched the brake release knob in the cabinet, turned the machine on and rotated motor axis with a wrench.

When all the limit switches were not pressed everything went smooth. The machine starts with ERR I01 I01 which is cleared with holding the hydraulics button (in my machine it's next to emergency stop) and pressing clear, then next line of errors appear which is cleared in the same way.
Without errors it's time to go to reference points homing the axes. I've hit enter 3 times for 3 axes, then the green start button. The axes are going to limit switches and retract. The machine is ready for jogging.

This explanation is probably very funny for professionals but would have been very useful for me a couple of days before :).

I don't know yet how to run the spindle, but loading and unloading a tool works just fine.

I'm going for a walk through the manuals from heidenhain database found through this thread:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...wnload-357275/?highlight=philips+432+cnc+3000

It is a really impressive piece of engineering, the way everything is organized, how clear and straightforward is the assembly, it shows immediately that it's "built up to specification". I've been thinking about getting a well known chinese origin mill and had loads of hesitation before the Maho, they are are fully unloaded now.

And the 1 micron jog is just ridiculous, how to even measure that it moves.

It was a joyful day!
Thanks for your insight and help!
 








 
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