Simple Saw Cut Method

[Mross506]

As we grow out our fab shop, I am looking for economical pieces of equipment and set up. We live in the world of 4" and under square tubing that is currently cut on a nice but smaller semi-auto horizontal bandsaw. It does not have hydraulic assist on the cut so while it does not need to be manned at all times while cutting. I was looking into an auto-feed saw but they are pricey and the owner does not believe they will hold accuracy. We would be considered a job shop so generally we are cutting a wide variety of sizes/lengths.

What is the best road to go down for a saw under $10,000 that can cut fast up to 4"x4" x 3/8" walled tubing? Should I get a double post horizontal saw with a hydraulic or air cutting assist? Or one guy mentioned having good luck with using a vertical bandsaw that has a sliding head? We are seldom cutting really large material so the capacity is much less important than it having accuracy and good cut speed. Instead of getting a $65,000 saw with auto-feed, we are guying to hire a helper that will feed the saw as fast as possible and keep the cut list ready ahead of the fabricators.

Thoughts?

 

[memphisjed]

What is accurate? A tigerstop cost a good bit but is stupid accurate.
One of the surplus auction sites has a v-18 for 5000. That is a good saw for what you are cutting. If you are cutting any quality of 4x4 powered feed saws are a requirement. The controlled feed rate increases blade life and dramatically changes cut time. Also not having a hydraulic blade tensioner once you are in this range is almost a requirement.
Verticals are better. Chip control is gravity assist, the zero camber head reduces rake angle making for heavier faster cleaner cutting.

 

[boslab]

I don’t know US made, we get pedrazzoli and kaltenbach for good quality over here, no complaints though kaltenbach software on the optimizer gets a little effort to figure out, not excessive
Mark

 

[Nerdlinger]

A new Marvel with auto feed blah blah will be $30k. You should be able to find a used one with auto feed and a top clamp for $5-10k. Look for going-out-of-business auctions. Lots of Amada’s out there. Those should all hold .010” all day I would think. Good luck!

 

[Mross506]

What is accurate? A tigerstop cost a good bit but is stupid accurate.
One of the surplus auction sites has a v-18 for 5000. That is a good saw for what you are cutting. If you are cutting any quality of 4x4 powered feed saws are a requirement. The controlled feed rate increases blade life and dramatically changes cut time. Also not having a hydraulic blade tensioner once you are in this range is almost a requirement.
Verticals are better. Chip control is gravity assist, the zero camber head reduces rake angle making for heavier faster cleaner cutting.

Thanks for the feedback. We typically have a 1/16" tolerance but that doesn't mean we like to use it.

 

[Scruffy887]

Thanks for the feedback. We typically have a 1/16" tolerance but that doesn't mean we like to use it.

Crayon tolerance? Fat sharpie tolerance? Auto feed dual column will pay for itself very quickly and .005 easy. 4x4x.375 is an easy bundle to cut 9 at time. Better get your outfeed stuff inline. The first time I put a 10 piece bundle of .75 x 4 1018 solid into the machine was the last time I did that.

 

[memphisjed]

Thanks for the feedback. We typically have a 1/16" tolerance but that doesn't mean we like to use it.

I agree that most auto saws have janky positioning. Tigerstop, razor, kentucky, controlled automation sms all are just positioners that are more than a tier or 5 above than the shuttling systems. Tigerstop cost, but hard to beat the operator interface.
I wish I could say an auto saw worked without reservation: from hydmech, amanda, muba, pedinghaus and marvel I have yet to see one that I can recommend.
hem or hydmech vertical with positioner I can honestly say good things. I have looked at making a follow probe and motorized conveyor- seems doable if you have bosses picking up the check- but by then they might be game for a store bought option.

 

[memphisjed]

Crayon tolerance? Fat sharpie tolerance? Auto feed dual column will pay for itself very quickly and .005 easy. 4x4x.375 is an easy bundle to cut 9 at time. Better get your outfeed stuff inline. The first time I put a 10 piece bundle of .75 x 4 1018 solid into the machine was the last time I did that.

bundle cutting? no, never, never, never. any saw engineer will gringe at the mention of it - every real saw manual says do not bundle unless you want to tear your machine up expect cuts 1/8 or more out. besides it is slowwwww. just read a blade speed chart and you see cutting 4 piece bundle is 8x slower than pairing or one at a time. 8 piece bundle would be 16x slower per part.
bundles are from pre positioners and pre controlled feed rate era. If you are running a hinge pivot saw or ellis size ok- once you are discussing real saws and real output no.
Our slowest saw (muba 36" double post) runs a 1hp servo on lead screw for feed, that is not enough to push the blade thru 10" stock fast enough. our Hem 48 runs dual hydraulic cylinders at pushing in the 1000-1500 lbs of force + weight of head.

a 9x bundle of 4x4x3/8 is 4 tons. That is the world you have to move to controlled auto conveyors and systems. Really good stuff, great service, and you pay accordingly.

 

[john.k]

My old Parkanson made in Taiwan horizontal will cut washers from hollow bar ...tolerance well within 005 .....hydraulic lift ,but gravity feed .....a new equivalent Chinese is around $6k Oz here....Bought used from the railways ,it had a backgage type cut to length auto feed on it,but all I ever wanted was one offs ,so the feed was removed......mounted on a semi truck ballrace ,the saw swivels for angle cuts.......this feature costs a fortune new,but used semi ballraces are scrap price.