Troublesome DMG Gildemeister CTX Fanuc lathe

[Tricky]

Hi folks,

We bought a new Gildemeister CTX310 V6 fixed head CNC lathe with y axis and sub spindle which was installed in July / August last year and had loads of problems with it.

1) It was delivered with the wrong software in it.
2) The software now has been changed twice.
3) Wires were not crimped properly so they had to be re-crimped.
4) it leaked coolant everywhere because they forgot to fit the blanking plug in the casting.
5)The barfeed was wrongly configured, so it didn't work when you used the 3 jaw chuck.
6)Parameters were wrong which meant the c axis kept alarming out.
7)But the worst of all is this wretched "dual check safety" system which keeps making the machine alarm out and go into E Stop mode when it sees the contact "bounce" when you close the door intermittently.
We have had several visits to try and sort this out, and now DMG say it's our fault because of the way we close the door !
Can you believe it

We have had over 10 visits in 6 months with all these problems, and gave them an ultimatum to sort it "or else" in November, they told us we wouldn't have any more problems, but we are
No we are taking legal action to get them to take the machine back.

Anyone else had problems with Deckel / Maho / Gildemeister machines ?

 

[huskermcdoogle]

No problems like that, though I would say they can be a finacky machine. I had tailstock problems, then after fixing that broke the tool setter... tool didn't stop... then after that the home positions weren't set. This is all out of the crate. After i got those problems sorted out, I didn't have any more. Though, it wasn't around for much more than 6 months before it moved from the lab.

 

[Tricky]

Its the attitude that is getting us now, more than anything.

They are blaming us for the problems and saying there is nothing wrong with it.
However, it didn't stop them trying to fob us off with asking if they could send in another guy from italy again, we told them that unless he is comming over to discuss compensation or removal of the machine don't bother !

 

[keithg]

I have a DMG 64v vmc. Amusingly enough, they also left a blanking plug out of my machine.

I also had problems with the door interlock[no emo's tho] and it basically was my fault. The door weighs several hundred pounds and you cannot heave it shut or it will bend the switch bracket and fail to latch.

Their service department was terrible but seems to have improved.

I have had zero problems with my machine in the last 2 years

It is a pity that fanuc is so screwed up with their pricing structure in that they keep all their parameter info close to the vest. There is no doubt a parameter that can alter the machines reaction to door errors

PM me if yo want to talk more

 

[Ferrous Antiquos]

Sorry to hear of your problems.
If you'd like to speak with a very knowledgeable independent serviceman, contact Spike at:

[email protected]

 

[GM]

I've owned a DMG CTX 410 for two years now with no problems (knock on wood). It has been a great machine though it does not get run everyday. Hope you get everything resolved.

Regards, Gary M.

 

[SwissPro]

It is a pity that fanuc is so screwed up with their pricing structure in that they keep all their parameter info close to the vest. There is no doubt a parameter that can alter the machines reaction to door errors

Door interlocks and alarms have nothing to do with Fanuc. They are added in buy the builder. There is no Fanuc "option" or secret parameter for door interlocks. Some builders, but not many anymore, have a keep relay which can be changed to disable the door interlock. So search the ladder on the control and look to see if the interlock is run through a keep relay.

Those really annoying door interlocks like the one on the Gital are a CE requirement. But more and more machine tool builders are putting them on machines sold in the US.

 

[keithg]

at the end of the day it is the plc and the cnc that decide what to do with the inputs.

 

[IndGild]

Just disconnect interlock ( 2 screws )and no more problems .... we have same problems for years ...and we decide to skip those switches-interlock.. no more problems

 

[minder]

When the OEM or retro-fitter get a Fanuc system the PLC (PMC) is a blank slate.
It is up to the MTB to do what he wants with it, Safety requirements are getting tighter, companies do not want to get sued, you will probabally see more Safety Relays being used as they have been in Europe for quite a while.
M.

 

[Tricky]

Thats the worse thing about it !
"you will probabally see more Safety Relays being used as they have been in Europe for quite a while"

The machine hasn't one safety relay !

It uses the spare chanels in the PMC of the control, so its safety systems are all entirely software driven.

"Just disconnect interlock" I wish we could, its far to inteligent for its own good, if we done that we couldn't open the chuck or use the tool setter arm.

 

[cnctoolcat]

There should be a way to "close" the door switch/swithces, so the machine thinks the door is closed all the time.
From my experience, it is almost impossible to setup and run a cnc machine without being able to "peek" inside by opening the door up. What a pain in the arse if the machine alarms out every time you do this.

 

[SeymourDumore]

I think what Tricky is saying that the control is fully aware of the door, so it knows to not run when it's open, nor will it run another part if the door wasn't opened and then closed. Seems that the chuck won't open unless the door is open.
Truly a b.tch when do-no-gooders make decisions about shiiit they know nothing about under the notion of "safety".
Wonder how many accidents happen explicitly due to rigged safetys that are inhibiting proper opertation, vs. the "use your brain" approach.
OSHA is a PITA, but doesn't seem as bad as the EU equivalent.
Yet.

 

[Tricky]

The bizzare thing about all this saftey stuff is that you guys are from the USA, the most litigious country in the world, and you can still have a hass toolroom mill with a tool changer on with no guards ! in Euroland you have to have the fully cased locked door version.

In my book if you have enough of a brain to run the machine, you should have the comon sense not to open a door when the machine is running or put you hands in the way.

They just don't have the comon sense aproach at all in Euroland.

The only way to over-ride the problems on our Gildemeister is to re-write or modify the software on the Fanuc Dual-Check Saftey PMC.

We can pay Fanuc £750 to come in and tell us what we already know (that the software in our machine is badly written/implimentated) which should be enough to win our case when we take DMG (UK) to court.

 

[minder]

<<<<<the only way to over-ride the problems on our Gildemeister is to re-write or modify the software >>>>
You never heard it from me, but if the safety string is one or more PMC inputs, you could wire a two position switch in parallel to the single door switch input or have the 2p switch operate a multi-contact relay if there is more than one saftey input.
The paralleled inputs will either have to be taken to common or the + voltage depending on the nature of input card (sink or source).
A bit cheaper than £750.00 if it works.
M.

 

[Boris]

In my book if you have enough of a brain to run the machine, you should have the comon sense not to open a door when the machine is running or put you hands in the way.

They just don't have the comon sense aproach at all in Euroland.

In my experience working with lets say, the less able employees... ok lets be honest, the thickies who have trouble deciding which end of a broom is for pushing along the floor
These people have great difficulty in working out if a tool is spinning at 6000 rpm or is stopped... or stick their hand in to remove some swarf off a drill and the tool changer arm then rips their hand off and sticks it in the tool magazine (I hate that.... have to clean all the blood outa the machine before it makes it go rusty )

The doors are annoying, however , if you are clever and have a box of tools and a vice you can make you own copies of the interlock keys so that you can set the machine with the spindle going
However

The boss bought me a nice handy touch probe thingy that I can use in the machine as a wobbler with the spindle stopped so I dont have to do that.

Boris

<<been at the wobbley juice again and the world's gone all wobbley

 

[SeymourDumore]

Hey Boris

I hear your point about the broomstick challenged guys, but wouldn't a bypassed safety at 6000RPM help with natural selection?
I mean, we don't really have to worry too much about mammuths, lions and the likes, so why don't we create our own modern survivor of the fittest? < or the less dumbest >

 

[Xjenderfloip]

Becuase you need the less fit.
In this world you need carriers and thinkers.
It also distincts us from animals to help the weak.(altough some animals are more social then some people).

 

[Tricky]

DMG (uk) Ltd. have re-buffed our latest ultimatium so I think it will be in the hands of our solicitors now unfortunatly.

 

[bryanhurst]

Am I right in thinking the only problem remaining is the door safety interlock? Once you go legal only one person gains (the legal Guy). I worked in the Machine Tool industry for many years and am sure there is a solution better than litigation. I think a further meeting with DMG (UK) Ltd would be a more beneficial than ultimatums. Try to get an independent chair to run the meeting so that all parties are given a far hearing and agree a plan to resolve the issue.