Very old lathe--help in age of lathe

[stef.]

Hello,

I have exhausted my research of a lathe I purchased awhile back. The seller could not provide any history (age or make) of the lathe. This lathe appears to be the eldest in the lathes I have. My guess is before 1870. Any guess as to the make or age would be appreciated. Thank you in advance!

Some specs on the lathe that are visible are that it will turn 18 inches between centers and 7 inches in dia. Mating surfaces have stamped numbers, thread sizes that are not standard, some what ornate and original green paint and planer marks on the bed and underneath side of bed.

Have photos.

 

[northernsinger]

I don't know anything about it, but it is a good looking very old little lathe, wish I had it here.

 

[thermite]

Hello,

I have exhausted my research of a lathe I purchased awhile back. The seller could not provide any history (age or make) of the lathe. This lathe appears to be the eldest in the lathes I have. My guess is before 1870. Any guess as to the make or age would be appreciated. Thank you in advance!

Some specs on the lathe that are visible are that it will turn 18 inches between centers and 7 inches in dia. Mating surfaces have stamped numbers, thread sizes that are not standard, some what ornate and original green paint and planer marks on the bed and underneath side of bed.

Have photos.View attachment 306679View attachment 306680View attachment 306681View attachment 306682View attachment 306683

I'd guess it could easily be fifty YEARS "before 1870". Mebbe twice that?

Looks to have been aimed at metal-turning, not wood, but...

With a hand-graver? Brass, and not much else, most likely.

 

[MrStretch]

Ignore the babbling AI, it's obviously never turned anything.

Steel, even blued pivot steel, is easy to turn by hand with a sharp graver. In fact, it's easier to turn by hand than brass because it doesn't grab. Try it with 1144 Stressproof, cuts like butter.

 

[Homebrewblob]

I feel that ole girl is older then 1870 too! It looks to be in great shape.

 

[thermite]

Ignore the babbling AI, it's obviously never turned anything.

LOL!

Guess you never "turned" ... the pages of any HISTORY books, either, fool?

Steel, even blued pivot steel, is easy to turn by hand with a sharp graver. In fact, it's easier to turn by hand than brass because it doesn't grab. Try it with 1144 Stressproof, cuts like butter.

Wot an ignorant comment!

I've been "hasty" turning steels with a hand graver (salvaged files & PHS blades) for full 60 years. Still do for a fast free-hand chamfer or eyeball-it-and-go radius crowning.

What YOU overlooked is the materials AVAILABLE back in that era!

There WERE NO "high alloy" steels nor "high speed" steels or "carbides" yet.
Brasses, Bronzes, CI, and "wrought" Iron were common. "German Silver" did not arrive until the 1820's.

GOOD HCS was expensive and far less common. What one could get of it made the cutting tools first of all.

There WAS NO "Aluminum" at all! outsdie the laboratory. Costlier than Gold.. but - go figure - Russians were making Samovars out of Platinum...

"Plastics"? See "gutta percha". Right useful stuff, actually.

"1144" my ass!!!

"Stress proofing" in that era was done at the sending end of lead ball and blackpowder ... or the receiving end of decent wine or WHISKEY.... and comforting wimmin'!

That last part still rules ....if you've missed that TOO!

 

[Joe in NH]

I agree with the other with 50 years prior to 1870 as possibility.

However, it was much more common in the Central MA/Worcester area in the time frame of 1850ish to 1872.

I owned a Lathe & Morse Tool Co. Lathe (now sold to board participant "Sampson") which came out of a Lawrence, MA mill built in 1874. Large chiseled keystone at the mill entrance with that date - and the remains of a period machine shop as part of the mill. This lathe bed "square." Also "modern" legs in the Pratt & Whitney pattern.

I have seen other L&MTCo. lathes with the so called "Wrinkle Moulded Bed" - particularly a lathe of discussion here which was being sold on Craigslist, again down in Lawrence. I was surprised to see L&MTCo name attached to an "early pattern lathe" - but this lathe was but a snapshot in "transitional", of course.

One of the earliest Shepard, Lathe & Co. machines exists as a pix on the Internet Shepard, Lathe & Co. Lathes and is a chain drive lathe - and DOES NOT have a wrinkle moulded bed. Rather square. So put this one in the 1854ish range.

Chain drive lathes were becoming more passe in 1854, but not necessarily outmoded - yet.

A slightly later SL&Co. lathe exists at Zagray Farm in CT, and DOES have the wrinkle moulded bed. By all estimation, this one pre-dates my dated 1864 SL&Co. lathe, w/ wrinkle moulded bed.

So for Shepard, Lathe & Co -> Lathe & Morse Tool Company lineage, the "wrinkle bed span" was from mid 1850s to perhaps before 1874.

But other makers used the design, and may have had a different date-range.

Given the legs on this example, I might put this to Nathan Baldwin. Nathan H. Baldwin - History | VintageMachinery.org Baldwin tended to the ornate, was a little "old fashioned" in styling, worked in this size, and his lathes showed some variation in details. Also preceded by S. Baldwin.

Hard to know though. Small lathe makers were legion, frequently serving a very small marketplace. One imagines it was not unknown to make a trip to the "big city foundry" to pick up an unmachined (or machined) bed and make up one's own appointments to go on it.

Tool PART making was a modus in the 1860s-1870s in Worcester.

Joe in NH

 

[rivett608]

I think it is a Baldwin based on what I have seen. I thought that at first sight even before I read down to Joe in NH's comment. As for age, I 'm thinking late 1850s to 1860s.

It is a beauty and you are lucky to get to take care of it for a time.