Cincinati 12 1/2 X 48

[Doug H]

Simple question. Given the condition and inability to test things, would you buy this?
I will, of course, spend some time going over the machine as well as I can, to verify all the parts are there, but I recognize that I might miss something. Hopefully it would not be something I couldn't make myself. I like the size of the machine, and I appreciate how beefy it is given it's size. I think it would make an awesome machine, and put my little Logan in the classifieds (after getting it up and running)

Cincinnati Tray Top 12.5" x 48" Metal-Cutting Lathe - tools - by...

Cincinnati Tray Top 12.5" x 48" Metal-Cutting Lathe This metal-cutting lathe is a beast, and was made in the late 1950's, I believe. There was some backlash in the cross-slide that I couldn't adjust...

dallas.craigslist.org

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

No mention in the ad that the lead screw is dismounted and laying in the chip pan, and that the shift levers for speed selection are all missing. One wonders why. Looks like a pretty significant project to me.

 

[Doug H]

No mention in the ad that the lead screw is dismounted and laying in the chip pan, and that the shift levers for speed selection are all missing. One wonders why. Looks like a pretty significant project to me.

It would definitely be a project, but I spoke at length with the owner, and I am reasonably confident that all the parts are there. I asked about the items you mentioned, and his response was at least somewhat reassuring. Apparently a part broke on one of the shift rods, and he disassembled it to have the part welded. Not sure about the work done, but looking at the parts diagram, there really isn't anything in there that can't be easily duplicated if need be. Who knows, the welded part might be fine as is. Still, as you said, a project with a capital "P", But you end up with a hell of a lathe for a bargain. This all assumes that there are no surprises on examination, of course. In addition to the service manual, I was able to find a photo of the gearbox. Just three sliding bars that are toggled by the rotation of the shaft.

 

[pan60]

i would unless you are experianced, have the tools, and no how, and could get the guy to all but give it to you, just look for another machine. they are out there.

 

[reggie_obe]

A tailstock turret and a compound as well? Does he have any tool holders for the turret and all the parts for the compound? Does the price include the VFD and is it a decent brand? Might be worth a look for a bit less money?
YMMV.

 

[john.k]

Not a tailstock turret,but a bed mounted capstan/turret ......also see a taper attachment .....so there is buried gold there ..........but also a project ..........Id certainly take it on......but for a sensible price...Howeevr ,I also note the whole crossslide and compound has been removed to use the capstan..........all of that MUST be there.

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

The ad says he disassembled the cross slide because it "had backlash", made a new gib (which wouldn't actually remove backlash) and then never reassembled it. Again, one wonders why. My experience is that unfinished/unassembled projects like this are often abandoned because the owner realizes the machine isn't really worth putting further time into. If the gib was so worn that a new one had to be made, that could be an indicator of general condition.

Any explanation of why the lead screw is not installed?

As the potential buyer, I guess it depends what you want to do with your time. Do you want to make things on a lathe, or do you want to repair a lathe? Both are valid, but the "hidden bargain" trap is an easy one to fall into. Unless you value your time at $0, a project like this can pretty quickly become a time and money pit, vs. spending more money up front for a better, functional machine.

As it sits, I'd say its worth scrap price. Several important aspects of the machine can't be demonstrated or inspected because they are disassembled and not functional. Lots of an unknowns for a machine with no parts support.

Weight should be about 1800 lbs.

I don't mean for this to sound too negative. Tray Tops are good lathes and if it's not too far from you it's worth going to look at it. I've just watched a lot of folks think they're going to save money by taking on a project like this, only to spend years screwing around looking for parts, fixing hidden problems, ect. and then ending up with a worn out, cobbled up machine. The sunk cost fallacy kicks in quickly when applied to big chunks of iron that are a pain to move around.

 

[Doug H]

Lot's of good comments, and I appreciate all of them. No real surprises there. Bottom line, I don't "need" that machine, so I could spend some time getting it sorted out. I consider myself more than capable of making most repairs, but there is always the issue of getting parts, or making them, as the need arises.
Are there better lathes out there, or at least lathes that need less sweat equity? Certainly. Not sure I could make the argument to spend 3-5 grand on one, so it would have to be a real bargain.
I will go up and take a good look at it (with printed parts manual in hand). There is a lot that I can examine that can give me an idea of the general condition. As I said previously, I spoke at length with the owner, and he might have been leading me on, but I got the feel that he just moved on from the project because life got in the way and his priorities changed. (got married, bought a house, lathe is in his previous residence). None of that means that it is a worthwhile project, but those are all reasons I can relate to for leaving it sitting. I have let more than a few projects go for similar reasons over the years.

Actually, there are a couple of advantages to having much of it in parts, as far as being able to examine some parts that are otherwise impossible to inspect. The one part that always makes me nervous is the worm gear in the apron, and with lead screw out, I should be able to just drop the apron and have a look. Easy enough to examine the part he had repaired by a welder, and make my own determination if it is adequate. It could just as easily be a bad repair hidden in the headstock of a "running" machine, just waiting to come apart and wreak havoc. Not sure exactly what he was trying to accomplish with the gib adjustment, but it should be easy enough to see what is going on.

Who knows, might take a look at it and shake my head and walk out, but it is worth a look. It is twice the machine my Logan is, given that both have similar swings. The table and cross slide alone are much more robust, and the machine is just more "INDUSTRIAL".

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I’d want it more or less given to me.

Regards Tyrone.

 

[Doug H]

Well, While I appreciate everyone's input, and no money has actually changed hands at this point, I think I am going to purchase this thing. I went to look at it today, and the gentleman was actually one of the most agreeable people I have ever had the opportunity to meet. What was meant to be a quick look to decide if I wanted to take a deeper look turned into a thorough 2 1/2 hour examination with parts manual in hand. I can state with confidence that while it looks absolutely horrible in the pictures, it really is a gem in the rough. Yes, there were some issues, and a couple of repairs were not how I would have executed them, but there was nothing there that just told me to "walk away". I pulled the top cover off the headstock, and examined every tooth on every gear, and they are all intact. I examined the worm gear in the apron, and it looked like either it had an easy life, or it had been replaced previously. The electronics appear to be fine, which is irrelevant, as every control will be converted to VFD activation, much as I did on my Logan. as for the "backlash" in the crossfeed, it was actually lateral slop as the tip of the gib had broken off at some point. In the short term, the repair he made will be fine, but I will likely just make a new one once I figure out how best to measure the angle, and fixture it. Will carve one out of mild steel just to get the fixture right, and then carve a permenant replacement out of ductile iron. Figure if I surface grind the contact side before machining, the machined side can just be cleaned up on a stone, or left alone. The clamp which connects the bow of the taper attachment is missing, but there really isn't an easier part to make than that, so another non-issue. The shift handle repair is not how I would have done it, but it was professionally welded and I see no issues. I have a plan to make a better repair going forward, but what is done doesn't concern me either. As for cosmetic appearance, yeah, it is a mess, but it will be getting a fresh coat of paint. I will lift the saddle/apron off with the crane when I unload it from the truck, and tarp the headstock end, and 80% of the machine has a date with a pressure washer before I ever move it inside.

I can't fault anyone for advising caution, but I feel I have done due diligence in making an informed decision, and if I miss the mark completely, I would be willing to bet I could part it out for 3 times what I pay for it, so no real financial risk as long as I am patient.

 

[john.k]

I was given a lathe in a million pieces ,and contrary to millenial opinion,its all together and working..........However ,my point is ,if you are seriously old ,as many on this forum are......please resist the urge to dismantle complete machines ,as they will never go back together ...........This applies to lots of antique stuff ,cars, motorbikes ,tractors ,as well as machine tools.,,,,,which end up as piles of scrap when the house sells for $3 million.