Ergonomics in the workplace

[William Payne]

I am 5’7” tall and nearly 34 years old (just for reference in the topic) I am off work right now due to a work related back injury. For the longest time up to my injury back pain has been a big problem for me, I’m the guy who doesn’t care about overtime and honestly that is due to physical pain. If I’m hurting I’m only working as long as I need to.

When the doctors told me I need to look at different type of work I started really seriously looking at the ergonomics of work in a workshop.

What I’ve realised is it often sucks. Much of my time is spent leaning over, hunched over whether at a machine or at a workbench, lack of lifting equipment, working on the floor on bigger projects because of inadequate facilities. Also has anyone noticed how on many manual machines the controls are down low?

I’m an employee so my ability to make changes in the workshop is limited. I want to put the question out there to owners, how do you handle ergonomics in the workplace? Do you really make an effort to have things at a good height for proper posture? Do you go all out with lifting equipment? Or do you not think about it at all?

 

[Antarctica]

I seem to recall many threads on here about putting machines on risers for this very reason...

 

[kustomizer]

I am an owner / operator, I am 6'8" and have only had short people in the shop over the years. They are gone, the machines all got 8" taller, what a relief

 

[Kalispel]

We try to do anything and everything practical to eliminate repetitive motion, lifting, reaching, twisting, bending, poor lighting, loud noises, dirt, fumes, etc. We use simple automation whenever we can. Improvements are often easy and “free” when considered before equipment is installed. Safe, easy and clean processes are always less expensive and easier to staff.

I learned my lesson the hard way early on. I had a summer job putting big rubber sheets onto a press. I had to bend down, reach over to one side, grab a sheet and flop it forward onto the press bed. I messed up my back to the point I could not move. I couldn’t even lay down because I couldn’t get back up. It took six months to recover. People figured I was faking because I was 17 and in great shape until that.

 

[CITIZEN F16]

I am an owner / operator, I am 6'8" and have only had short people in the shop over the years. They are gone, the machines all got 8" taller, what a relief

I am 6" even with a bad back, hate bending. I swear they seem to make machines for people below the average height.
Only once I saw an instance where a CNC machine was too tall for an operator, it was a Citizen F-25. The guy said he was 5 foot even but I think that was exaggerated a couple inches. He stood on a short homemade stool. I think if his arms were average length he would not have needed the stool to reach the back turret. The average man is 5'9", but it seems machines are built for people 5'2".

 

[IninefingersI]

I've got a guy with a bad back. I got him a mat, and he is the only one in the shop with a backed stool in his cell. I caught him trying to lift 2x3x12ft bars of aluminum after I specifically told him to let the young guys unload the material. I haven't found a cure for stupid.

 

[CITIZEN F16]

I've got a guy with a bad back. I got him a mat, and he is the only one in the shop with a backed stool in his cell. I caught him trying to lift 2x3x12ft bars of aluminum after I specifically told him to let the young guys unload the material. I haven't found a cure for stupid.

He has a good back compared to mine. I used to be a power lifter, now picking up anything over 25# I feel it.

 

[gustafson]

2/3 of it is you, how you do things, how you approach things, how you do not get help to pick things up

I have never had a good back, so I learn to adapt

for instance, running a lathe, stand back, military rest position, arms back, fists balled in the small of the back


deburring on a drill press that is too short, legs both spread out rather than back twisted


rubber floor mats


good shoes


an empty Kurt vise is too heavy to fool with, watch your footing, do not bend over

etc
etc
etc

 

[Pattnmaker]

Funny enough never got any sort of back problem, few repetitive injuries working in the shop. Parked in front of a computer doing cad and cam work my shoulder was absolutely killing me and the tendons in the back of my scrolling hand was giving me problems. I added a mouse platform and 3d mouse platform to the arm rests of my chair. Within a day my shoulders started feeling better. They allow me to sit with shoulders back. Using a 3d mouse cuts down on the zooming in and out to reposition models.

 

[IninefingersI]

He has a good back compared to mine. I used to be a power lifter, now picking up anything over 25# I feel it.

Oddly enough, I herniated a disk in my back brushing my teeth. Apparently, I'm a very aggressive toothbrusher. After a couple years on gabapentin and a few epidurals, I'm good to go now. Now that I know how miserable back pain is, I just stand around and point for the young guys.

I did have some problems with sciatica awhile back, but I stopped sitting on my wallet and it went away.

 

[Kalispel]

I stopped sitting on my wallet and it went away.

It is good to have a thick wallet

 

[IninefingersI]

It is good to have a thick wallet

I think it is more a matter of a boney ass.

 

[ttrager]

I'm not an owner, but I'll put this story out there for anyone to consider when thinking about "ergonomics" in general, not just this specific scenario (particularly owners, who control the budgets and what their priorities are for shop improvements).

Scenario: Steel deliveries, sometimes over 1,000 lbs, in strapped bar stock of varying sizes, including 3" dia.
Ergonomics / Safety Problem: In our old building there was a single, narrow little stretch of floor next to the steel saw. Steel trucks would show up, the bundle of steel strapped to the chain hoist, then floated over to that area and dropped on the floor.

Checking that in, cutting the straps (which might cause the bundle to collapse/roll), COUNTING and measuring the bars, painting the relevant color code at one end and applying and ID sticker was miserable. Crouching down, leaning over, trying to NOT have bars roll onto fingers/hands and feet, etc.

A real pain for the worker, most often me, sometimes someone else.

We moved into a new building. We had a fellow putting up the walls for the new inspection room. Talking to him one day I mentioned I felt the need for a steel receiving cart. He said he could weld one up no problemo. I already had a diagram sketched out from about a year previous. I pulled that up, we talked over the . . . ERGONOMICS and SAFETY ISSUES . . . the tool should satisfy.

Bingo-bango. The dude had it welded up in a couple of days, with the anti-roll retainers on the edges, several holes drilled across it's width with matching steel pegs so we can dynamically create separation between different shipments, or different sizes, or different types of steel. On mega wheels that can support a couple of thousand pounds.

Bottom Line: Steel Bar shipments now drop onto a 3' high steel cart. Bars can't roll off it. You can dynamically setup partitions as needed across the top. Easy access at waist height, keeps people's backs / fingers / feet safer, far easier to get ahold of bars for lifting, etc.

I put a couple of "Rolling/Pinching" Warnings on it, the boss now likes it and gave a thumbs up (we can now MOVE hundreds of pounds of steel, if we have to prior to permanent racking, by just rolling it out of the way), and two other fellows and I who regularly manhandle steel deliveries love it. Just a dumb steel cart can make all the difference in the world.

Moral of the story: You don't have to be a boss if you are in a situation where you can make a decision. Failing that, if you have an issue, spend a little time laying it out and go to the boss. Make a rational, thought out answer. If you are a boss, keep your eyes open, think about what you are seeing around you.

The steel cart thing had been mentioned before to the owner. But it was sort of a smile and nod thing, not out of contempt, but it was clear it didn't rate very high in his mind. He had been used to decades of just using the floor. He wasn't doing the work, so he didn't have the perspective.

 

[sfriedberg]

At 5'6", I generally don't find machine controls too low. :-) On the other hand, about 2/3 of small surface grinders, with the Y axis wheel at the top of the column, I can't operate at all. :-(

Overloading your skeleton (including discs and tendons) and repetitive handling stress are real problems. Shop owners should provide sufficient gear that workers don't run the risk of disabling injuries. But as gustafson mentioned, there are things workers can do to reduce their own risks. Shops can bring in trainers temporarily to school people on posture, lifting technique (and get in some related safety training at the same time), basic physical self-assessment and warming/stretching exercises. But one of the top 2 or three things is as simple as paying attention to the pain! If it hurts or makes your joints ache, it's past time to find a remedy.

 

[CarbideBob]

The "right height" makes all the difference in the world.
A B-port made need blocks or a pallet or two under it to put the handles at "comfy" and the part at reasonable viewing.
My surface grinders get cnc drives so handles not a concern but load/unload height for sure is when running 10-15 second cycles all day long.
Here the riser is the operator standing platform. In my main grinding cell the "floor" is raised 8+ inches and it oh so much better.
Take your arms up over your head, close your eyes and bring them down to what seems nice. Where are you?
Then in a shop one may have to deal with 5 foot and 6 foot plus employees and a compromise.
I did not think shit about this when younger and just deal with it to the whine and cry.
I have learned that it matters. It not xx has a bad back or arms. It is ease of use, motion needed.
Bob

 

[Scottl]

I knew a guy who fixed fork lift trucks for a living. He said he wouldn't lift heavy stuff unaided and always used pry bars, jacks, overhead hoists or often another lift truck since there were usually more than one at a repair site. He had been at it for years and seen many younger guys ruin their health so he chose to work smart. In this day and age there's no excuse for employees dead lifting excess weight.

I'm careful myself. If I have to move a milling vise I make sure I only lift it onto a cart rather than carry it. You only get one body.

 

[Big B]

Oddly enough, I herniated a disk in my back brushing my teeth. Apparently, I'm a very aggressive toothbrusher. After a couple years on gabapentin and a few epidurals, I'm good to go now. Now that I know how miserable back pain is, I just stand around and point for the young guys.

I did have some problems with sciatica awhile back, but I stopped sitting on my wallet and it went away.

In 92 I had the worst lower back problems that I've ever had. I had injured it lifting a set of cast iron cylinder heads out of the trunk of my car. The lift was OK but the turn when I got them out was a killer. The muscle spasms got so bad that I couldn't walk. My wife drove me to the doctors office and helped me walk in and when the doctor saw me he said "let me see your wallet". I was floored but thought maybe he wanted to see what kind of insurance I had or something so I reached in my back pocket and got my wallet out and he told me that the wallet was part of my lower back problems.

As usual he gave me a list of exercises to do and I was in too much pain to do them at first and after my pain got tolerable I pretty much forgot about the exercises. I had lower back problems from my early teens until late 50's.

Then one winter I was getting restless spending the winter in Michigan and got to talking to a woman friend of ours about her going to Yoga classes. She kind of raved about it and I'd been thinking about trying it for a long time so I told my wife that I was signing up for Yoga. After she got over the shock of what I had told her she told me to sign her up too.

We've both been going for several years now and my lower back problems have pretty much disappeared. It isn't just from the core muscle poses but also you learn ways of moving that aren't so hard on your body.

Covid shut the classes down for over a year and we went back for a while but then we headed south for the winter and that was the end of that for a while. I highly recommend it to anyone with or without back problems.

It also isn't a bad thing that most classes I'm the only man in the class of from 20 to 30 students. It's a dirty job but someone has to do it. They treat me like a novelty and we all have a good time.

Namaste

 

[Ox]

Carrying on with Big B's story line (if we can get along in this forum?):


I had a bad back for decades. First time I pinched a nerve I was 18 (19?), and was to have started a [semi]new job the next morning. My step dad was a Chiropractor, but they were all gone for the weekend. He worked on me when he got home, but Monday morning was a no go. I think it took like maybe an hour for me to crawl upstairs to git to the phone to call in. More work that day, and he gave me some drugs the next morning.

I went in to work and they asked me if my back was OK? "It will be shortly..."
In all honesty, that may be about the only time in my life that I took pain killers?

Then a cpl yrs later I was trying to tip a 55 gal drum of stamping slugs to dump out in a roll-off. I actually reached below my feet level to grab the drum.
THAT didn't go well...
From that day, and for the next 30 yrs I fought a bad back.

I quickly learned to address it on my own tho. I was always twisting in the chair and whatnot.
Just staying up with it constantly. I was OK.

Then somewhere close to 50 yrs old - for whatever reason - that issue all went away.
And just moving first thing in the morning - crack, pop, crack... Sounds like I just poured milk in my cereal.

I have always lifted heavy, and still doo.

Hey - I'm all about taking my licks early so's to have the best later, but I Shirley didn't count on this!



----------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[CITIZEN F16]

Oddly enough, I herniated a disk in my back brushing my teeth. Apparently, I'm a very aggressive toothbrusher. After a couple years on gabapentin and a few epidurals, I'm good to go now. Now that I know how miserable back pain is, I just stand around and point for the young guys.

I did have some problems with sciatica awhile back, but I stopped sitting on my wallet and it went away.

I haven't sat on a wallet in years, I just use a money clip, the wallet stays in my vehicle in the console.

 

[CITIZEN F16]

Carrying on with Big B's story line (if we can get along in this forum?):


I had a bad back for decades. First time I pinched a nerve I was 18 (19?), and was to have started a [semi]new job the next morning. My step dad was a Chiropractor, but they were all gone for the weekend. He worked on me when he got home, but Monday morning was a no go. I think it took like maybe an hour for me to crawl upstairs to git to the phone to call in. More work that day, and he gave me some drugs the next morning.

I went in to work and they asked me if my back was OK? "It will be shortly..."
In all honesty, that may be about the only time in my life that I took pain killers?

Then a cpl yrs later I was trying to tip a 55 gal drum of stamping slugs to dump out in a roll-off. I actually reached below my feet level to grab the drum.
THAT didn't go well...
From that day, and for the next 30 yrs I fought a bad back.

I quickly learned to address it on my own tho. I was always twisting in the chair and whatnot.
Just staying up with it constantly. I was OK.

Then somewhere close to 50 yrs old - for whatever reason - that issue all went away.
And just moving first thing in the morning - crack, pop, crack... Sounds like I just poured milk in my cereal.

I have always lifted heavy, and still doo.

Hey - I'm all about taking my licks early so's to have the best later, but I Shirley didn't count on this!



----------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

It is a rare person that says "I used to have a bad back." You should figure out what fixed yours and get rich selling the remedy.