FP3 Active with trouble

[Peter from Holland]

We have this FP3Active all cleaned up
But we ran into a problem while testing it
The powerfeed Z-up jumped out of engagement every time
So we took off the saddle
Easy enough if you have done it several times already
Disconnecing the scale on the X is the most troublesome
It has to be desoldered or the cable pulled through the hoses to the DRO
We decided to desoldered it
Then DRO on the Y needs to be removed as the Y slide has to go fully back out of the spindle
Some scrapers and bellows removed
Gib plates loosened a bit
Take the bolts out of the nut of the Z-spindle
After this picture we decided to strap the base of the machine to the pallet as all weight is on the back without the saddle and we do not want it to tip over
Some straps and the forklift make it come out Gently

Th

All straigt forward sofar
Layed it down on a trolley and opened it up
We noticed that it was tampered with before All the grease made that obvious
After further inspection we noticed the sliding gear that engages the feed Z up hardly could engage with the mating gear as it would slide in the bushing visable on the last picture

 

[Peter from Holland]

We took it all apart and first we noticed that the shaft had 3 holes in it to hold the clutch instead of one
Oke But then came the surprise
3 Holes to hold that clutch instead of one

Lets hope one is correct then

BUT THEN

 

[Peter from Holland]

We did take a closer look at the mating gear
You notice ???????

 

[thanvg]

We did take a closer look at the mating gear
You notice ???????


View attachment 420479

Can't see the issue, the rest of the teeth seem ok

 

[Peter from Holland]

 

[Peter from Holland]

3 Teeth missing
I got a quote from Singer
Guess??

 

[Martin P]

759€?

 

[Gloryrates500]

If the module of the gear is known, perhaps you can purchase blanks here and machine the hub yourself

Spur Gears, Toothed Racks, Internal Gears, Ratchet Wheels

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www.maedler.de

 

[Peter from Holland]

It is one piece with the bevelgear And hardened. I looked into it in turning it down and shrinkfit a nitrided gear But then the bevelgear has little body left The gear is 2mm corrected as well So must be hobbed

 

[Peter from Holland]

759€?

€1250,-

 

[AlfaGTA]

Wow. Peter, have you seen this failure before?
Teeth broken on just one gear, and 3 teeth. Seems hard to do.
Cheers Ross

 

[thanvg]

It is one piece with the bevelgear And hardened. I looked into it in turning it down and shrinkfit a nitrided gear But then the bevelgear has little body left The gear is 2mm corrected as well So must be hobbed

Hey there Peter,

if I am not mistaken, the OD of that beveled gear is a bit smaller than the root diameter of your broken spur gear, but can't tell how much.
So, I suppose you could, indeed, turn the spur gear down till you make it all disappear and then turn a bit more using the bevel gear as a shoulder. Shrink fit a prehard steel ring and cut the gear to the depth that you have measured before hand.
Yes, the outer part of the bevel gear won't be properly supported, but only a small portion of it and I feel it could work for years.

On the other hand, I am thinking in hobbyist terms, your approach as a seller is certainly different....

BR,
Thanos

 

[Peter from Holland]

Wow. Peter, have you seen this failure before?
Teeth broken on just one gear, and 3 teeth. Seems hard to do.
Cheers Ross

Never seen this before
I was wondering the same What could have coased this No visable damage on the mating gear
But it is heavily tampered with
I suspect thesre is something missing behind that lower clutch
It is only engaged half the wide of the gears

Peter

 

[Peter from Holland]

Hey there Peter,

if I am not mistaken, the OD of that beveled gear is a bit smaller than the root diameter of your broken spur gear, but can't tell how much.
So, I suppose you could, indeed, turn the spur gear down till you make it all disappear and then turn a bit more using the bevel gear as a shoulder. Shrink fit a prehard steel ring and cut the gear to the depth that you have measured before hand.
Yes, the outer part of the bevel gear won't be properly supported, but only a small portion of it and I feel it could work for years.

On the other hand, I am thinking in hobbyist terms, your approach as a seller is certainly different....

BR,
Thanos

I have my gearfriend take a look at it We found already out it is M1.5 with a 2mm undersize correction
It should be possible
I was thinking in the line of leaving a bit more body at the bevel gear at a 45Dgr angle And a 45Dgr chamber inside the spur gear
But that still is a decent amount of work
Perhaps just buy it

 

[Peter from Holland]

I also took out the same gear from a FP3NC scrap machine I had
But unfortunatly 2 gears bigger
And from a FP2 another module on the bevel gear
Now I notice writing this I can see if that spur gear is the same and put those 2 together
We see about that next week

Peter

 

[Peter from Holland]

Update
The gear did not fit Was about 1mm smaller (or bigger, forgot)
But it got worse The 2 clutchparts pinned to the drive shaft were not original And also machined wrong The contact between the 2 clutchhalves was only at the inner edge So we had to order these as well
I get some picks tomorrow
Peter

 

[Peter from Holland]

In the first picture you see the clutch only touches on the inner edge
In the third you see that it even does not engage in all positions
Second picture shows the holes of which one is to hold the upper clutch part

 

[thanvg]

Thanks for sharing this investigation Peter, that's invaluable stuff

 

[Peter from Holland]

Thanks for sharing this investigation Peter, that's invaluable stuff

And valuable for me

 

[j-holland]

We did take a closer look at the mating gear
You notice ???????


View attachment 420479

exam of damaged gears appears to show following:
the compound spur gear is combined with face driven hypoid bevel gear
the smaller hypoid bevel pinion gear has right hand twist--an indication that this
driver gear does not share same line of center as face driven combination spur gear/hypoid bevel driven gear whose task is elevation of knee
you can save serious money by cutting blanks for both damaged gears and cutting straight teeth in bevel pinion and adjusting lead of driven face gear to accomidate offset angle determined by distance of offset pitch circles--cutting hypoid geometry is very pricey
this system will exhibit more noise but your machine is already compromised