FP4M tooling

[DUIofPhysics]

I've picked up a nice new-to-me Deckel FP4M.

I'm now beginning to hunt around for tooling. What I know is that it's an SK40 taper. I know the SK40 is quite similar to several other metric tapers, are there any that are actually interchangeable?

It would be good to know if there are other ones I should keep an eye out for in auctions, as SK40 is not as common.

I'm also looking for some good milling vices. Kurt seem to be hard to get here over in the UK, are there any good places to go for decent milling vices?

Any other general advice for tooling up a machine would be appreciated. I know the general bits I used, and mostly expect to order as I need them (no point shelling out money for a massive range)
Mostly planning to hit auctions to save on cost where I can.

Are the fancier collet holders worth it for manual machining, or just stick with collets / ER collets & a few good Hydraulics (maybe side lock - haven't tried them before) for heavier cutting work?

 

[AlfaGTA]

This is an open question....
If you are starting from zero your options are open.
Some depends on what tooling is readily available in your area.

Over here (US) the most common and price competitive tooling in the #40 taper flavor would be CAT40 tooling.
Over there you might find that #40 DIN 2080 holders are common and that your machine could already be setup to run those.....

Should you find that CAT40 holders are your best move, then you will need to make a new draw bar to reach (longer) the shorter CAT40 holders as well as being am inch thread (5/8-11)

As to collets, i am a bit outside the usual user i see posting here....
I use two different collet types on my home FP3NC.
For small tools i prefer the ER 16 collets and holders...holds a range of tools up to 10mm accurate and cost effective....generally price defines quality.
For larger tooling i go with the TG100 collets. I believe these have better tool gripping power over similar sized TG collets. TG100 will hold tools to 1" od.
For rough cutting and high loads, Weldon style holders (set screw) are relatively inexpensive and will give good performance where tool pull out can be an issue.

On my small machine (Deckel FP2) i like the factory direct mounting #40 collets as those retain the max. amount of vertical height, which can be in short supply on the smaller machines.

Cheers Ross

 

[Martin P]

My understanding that the UK is now fully metric (except for traffic signs and such?). I have this understanding because I once tried to gift brand new inch calipers to a young English guy and he said he would not know how to handle inches.
That being said: does CAT 40 not have a non-metric pull stud? If so, I'd stay away from it.
Its also a reason why I would not want a Haas over here, not metric (I have only seen the outside and its tables). This just gets you into the woods real fast, where no-one has inch tools or parts (with exceptions in plumbing, Boeing door fasteners and some other areas).
Basic SK40 tooling is so cheap over here now it is hard to get rid of. It is not even worth advertising piece by piece (except if its special stuff). If you start from zero I'd recommend to just buy some practice holders in the beginning and then look for a bulk purchase. So very often stuff gets sold by the pallet or at least large lot. Also it seems companies are moving away from DIN2080 for a long time now. I do not know why, but it seems to be almost gone in new items. Of course there is HSK, but I do not know why the small diameter pull studs are more popular now.
I bought a bunch of SK40 2080 shafts with brand name short drill chucks ("Kurzspannfutter") for 25 a pieces from a guy who literally had a pallet of them. Retail for like 300? As Germany gets de-industrialized, not unlike the UK did some years ago, this stuff migrates to the privat individuals.
It's best to find a lot with some higher value items, like boring heads, in them. Those will determine the value.
It's a buyers market. Have fun.

 

[BillE]

The original vices offered by the local distributor here for the 4M were 100mm and a 106mm angle vice. The one here came with a Pratt 6" hylo and that doesn't appear to be unique, as I've seen another 4 machine with the same set-up.....I'd expect they're more common over there as a bonus!

When you look in the Deckel brochures of the period, appears to be the same black hammertone thing used on both 1s and 4's that looks a touch hungry in Z.

BT40 used here, but that's with hydraulic pull and a 69871 stud.

 

[Chris999]

Use BT40 tooling. Buy the pull studs from Singer.

 

[zephyrous]

90% of the these late Deckels in Europe came with DIN2080. In that case I would go with the Kemmler ISO40 toolholders.
I believe they are made in house and are top quality.Their e-shop is also easy to use and will send abroad.Singer would be my second choice, lower quality but also lower prices, even some rare used toolling to make a good combination discount along with the wipers/covers/bellows and stuff you will order but you don't know it yet...
Regarding vise selection, my first choice would be a pair of used allmatic/hilma/gressel cnc vises (not the hydraylic oldschool ones).These come up often as pairs on ebay in prices between 800-1500 euro/piece which is a bargain considering their current catalog prices.

 

[Martin P]

Use BT40 tooling. Buy the pull studs from Singer.

Right....use the system least available at your location and where a stud costs more than a common complete holder.

But the poster has already forgotten his thread and may currently be adapting something with a British Standard Fine thread somewhere.