Me and my new SouthBend 13...

[Dave_C]

Hi folks,

First post here, so an introduction to start;
Name is Dave, I Live in Kalamazoo, Mi and have not used a lathe in ten years since I was at engineering college in Manchester, England (emigrated to the best country in the world in 2004).

I have just purchased a lathe for home use on the many projects I've got going on. I've been searching for one just like this for some time - requirements were a 13" swing, not too long of a bed as everything I'll likelly be doing is within a foot of the chuck, oh and CHEAP!

So, I found a southbend over detroit way, nice 13" unit for $600. It needs a fair bit of work before using, but has the dual tumblers, taper attachment, and three and four jaw chucks. It was used in a high school, so has been abused somewhat in the past.

Obvious things wrong with it are as follows:

1) Carriage handwheel turns its gear behind the apron, which turns the next gear, which spins happily on the shaft. Seems like a dowel pin or key has come out?

2) Idler Gear wheel missing bushing and nut, other nuts missing

3) Reverse bracket handle and lock lever broken off / missing

4) Tailstock (was) really stiff and missing handwheel handle

5) Apron clutch handle missing (I actually have it - it is just loose in the bracket)

6) missing parts and brackets on the taper turning

7) Small amount of bed wear (not too concerned about given what I will be doing).

8) Small, but noticable amount of axial movement in headstock spindle (ball thrust bearing on gear end looks very dry)




So, here are some pictures - feel free to critique and comment on any of them as I'm running on empty when it comes to southbends and in fact any lathe that doesn't have metric threads


http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/01_main.JPG

http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/02_main.JPG

http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/03_bed.JPG

http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/04_tumb.JPG

http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/05_apron.JPG

http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/06_apron.JPG


http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/07_saddle.JPG
I don't think the bolt dropped loosely into to hole at the red circle is meant to be there? But what is?


http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/08_head.JPG


http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/09_head.JPG
Note the set screws are missing - this is a little concerning that someone might have been 'messing about'


http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/10_head.JPG
All seems well this end!


http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/11_gears.JPG
Lots of things wrong here!


http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/12_belt.JPG
Belt seems to be a polymer, rather than a leather belt. In good shape too.


http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/13_taper.JPG
Taper has a few pieces missing. Hand-nut at the yellow, and a bracket to secure the arm to the bed at the tailstock end I assume...


http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/14_adjust.JPG
It looks like someone has been in here before. There is around 140 degrees of TOTAL free-play at the cross-slide with the slide locked down, but the nuts just don't look right to me?


http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/15_tooling.JPG
http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/16_tooling.JPG


http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/17_essentials.JPG
Note the tumbler gate is not on the machine? WHY???


http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/18_unknown.JPG
Not sure what this is? It was in the 'box of bits'


http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/20_gauge.JPG
Micrometer gauge carriage stop I assume?


http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/21_missingbush.JPG
This bush and nut are missing and I've no idea what size, shape or material it's meant to be,


http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/22_date_maybe.JPG
Found this stamp - which suggests Nov 1966 - at least for when this housing was machined, or built up!


http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/23gears.JPG
Tumbler gears look well greased with sticky stuff, but no missing teeth

http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/24_unknown.JPG
http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/25_unknown.JPG
If someone can tell me what these are for I'd appreciate it. The clamp lines up on the cross-slide ways, and I guess is something to do with the taper turning?


http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/26_serial_no.JPG
Serial number. This dates the machine to 1967 from http://wswells.com/serial_number.html
What doesn't make sense is that the machine should have a 11/16" collet (according to the "T") but the diameter is 1.63" which makes it a 1 1/16" collet capacity - unless I'm misunderstanding something?


So, I'll be posting questions soon on how to get my lathe up and running.
I want to get the apron off first, to see what I'm up against, then get the drive gears fixed. A 'sympathetic' restoration will then take place; basically I don't intend on re-painting anything unless it really needs it - I just want to go through the whole machine and clean/lube it as needs be, replace what needs replacing, then put it to work!

The tailstock is already fixed - the alloy bushings that lock the sliding spindle were gummed up and not releasing. The OD of the spindle was also a bit beat up at the end. This is all rectified now and we're good in this area at least.


Sorry If you're on dial-up, but I have made the pictures as compact as possible for the detail I wanted to keep visible. I've not seen many folks post up this amount of photos in one hit, so you'll either find it interesting or frustrating - apologies if the latter!

Thanks for the intro, hopefully I can become a good addition to the group!
Dave C

 

[KurtLoup]

The red circled bolt is to lock the carriage. There is a piece that attaches to the bolt that tightens/clamps to the underside of the ways, at least on my 9" Jr.

Kurt

 

[AndrewM]

My 1937 13" SB is pretty similar. And I'm at a pretty similar stage right now (apron is off, I just replaced the wick oilers in it a couple days ago).

On the "double nut" on the crossfeed, replace those with a self locking nut. That's what I did on my 13", no more messing around with those stupid double nuts.

The bolt in the red circle is for the carriage clamp. Tighten it and the carriage is locked in to place.

I think your taper attachment bed clamp is in the #16 picture, towards the lower left.

 

[Webb Wyman]

Hi There,

http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/24_unknown.JPG
http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/25_unknown.JPG
If someone can tell me what these are for I'd appreciate it. The clamp lines up on the cross-slide ways, and I guess is something to do with the taper turning?

The piece on the left is called a "Threading Stop." As you surmised, it clamps to the
cross slide dovetail way and is used as a stop for the cross slide so that is can be re-
turned to the same place after each pass. It is explained in How To Run A Lathe
by South Bend Lathe. If your lathe didn't come with this booklet, GET ONE.

The piece on the right is the bottom clamp for the micrometer stop.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

 

[jim rozen]

In no particular order:

1) the handle for the lever clutch on the apron is in with the lot of tooling, it's
a short steel shaft with a black plastic ball on the end.

2) the crossfeed dial at the front of the carriage is missing the nut on the handle,
which holds things together. The crossfeed setup won't be right till it's reassembled
correctly.

3) the "setscrews" missing on the left side of the headstock are 1/8 NPT pipe
plugs actually, which cover up the allen head screws that pull up on the expanders
in the spindle bearings. The expander screws under the pipe plugs have to be
snug tight for the bearings to operate correctly. Do NOT attempt to remove the
bearing caps without first removing the bearnig expander screws under those
plugs.

This machine obviously needs a bit of TLC but from the photos it seems to be
mostly there, and will respond well to attention lavished on it.

Jim

 

[ToolPost]

Nice Mini!

 

[Dave_C]

Cheers for the answers guys, well spotted on some of the details!


2) the crossfeed dial at the front of the carriage is missing the nut on the handle,which holds things together. The crossfeed setup won't be right till it's reassembledcorrectly.




The parts diagram isn't so clear on this small part. So I'm not understanding that it sin't just holding the handle on, so much as being an 'end-stop' for the cross-shaft thrust bearings through the handle?
Sounds like I need to figure out what this looks like and get one made?



Does anyone know what the bush under the idler looks like (even approximately) so i can look at getting one made? I guess I could call leblond first and get a price?

 

[Dave_C]

Well, i just trawled the parts list and called leblond. Seems the cross-feed handle nut is a mere $9, the pin that is supposed to be there is $2 and the bushing for the idler is only a whopping $72!

Think I'll hold off on the bushing for a little while.

 

[Webb Wyman]

Hi There,

The pin that goes between the cross feed handle and shaft (160x19) is a straight
pin CRS 1/8" Diameter by 3/8" long. You can make one of those.

The bushing for the idler gear is a flanged bushing. I don't have a 13" lathe and
cannot give you dimensions but you could probably deduce them from the gear and
stud you have. A course picture is item number 85 in the diagram below:

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

 

[Dave_C]

Oh-HO! Things just took a nice turn!

The supply chain guy on my programme at work just told me he has the EXACT same lathe at home - aside from the taper turning attachment - and if I need to look at any part of it for refernce the offer is there.

BINGO!

Love it when things work out that way.

Webb - Cheers for the heads up on the top-hat shape of the bush - as you say I can figure it out from what pieces I have.

 

[Todd Blakemore]

I've got a 13" lathe as well, but mines older and does not have the same setup for gearing (from what I see)

Still, if you need any measurements that you aren't able to get from your friend I'll do my best to help.

I'll try and update the thread I started here as I'll get further along with it.

So far I've bought a quick change tool post and am working on trying to find a change gear that has missing teeth for a reasonable price.

-Todd

 

[Rudd]

Dave,
I've got a 13" as well, and watch them on ebay and the like. I don't know that I've ever seen one that had an oil cover at the purple circle in the 11 gears.jpg. Mine looked just like yours. I know of one now that has a cover, when I took that ass'y apart to replace a chipped gear, I cleaned it out really well, and "installed" (read: hammered) a Gits oil cover in the end of the tube.

 

[gotchips]

Hey Dave C

I was going thru the post and came across yours and after looking at the pictures I have a feeling that your lathe and mine are Sisters and I think they came out of the same building. I will look at the s# when I get the chance or remember but I do know that it was made in March of 1967 don't know how long you have had it but it looks identical to yours.

 

[egrim]

Greetings,

Welcome, Dave. I appreciate all the work you've done taking pictures and uploading them to illustrate your questions. I too have a "new" SB 13-inch and am in much the same position as you are. Your lathe looks just like mine. My late grandfather told me that a short lathe was more useful, as almost all machining is done close to the headstock, and a long bed is seldom worth the room it occupies.

If you check the thread on this forum titled "New (to me!) Heavy 10'' - some questions" you will find a link to a great site by Ryan Battelle in which he describes his work refurbishing his SB 13-inch, in great detail and with lots of pictures.

The link is in the first response to Tony's post, by Ryan "Grey Rider" Battelle.

I expect to benefit from reading the answers to your questions. If I can contribute anything I will, but I am a newbie and do more listening than talking. I disassembled my lathe into major subassemblies to move it into my basement; if it would be helpful I can describe how I did it.

Yours, Erec Grim
Spokane, Wash.

 

[gotchips]

Well Dave my S# is 11429TKL14, 3 ahead of yours. I got mine from a fellow in the Detroit area as well. He had about a half of dozen of them and I bought two. I sold one but kept the 13 inch with the short bed. I have ran lathes for over 40 years and can count the number of times I have needed a longer bed on one hand or maybe both but not that many. I suppose that depends on what type of work you do,alot of guys wouldn't be without a longer bed. Anyway,if you need any help or have any questions this is the place to ask.

Cheers,
Dale

 

[Dave_C]

Hey guys, I've not been logged in for ages - and questions have been asked kinda recently...
The 'date stamp' is on the 'gearing end' of the headstock casting, behind the reversing assy.
Lathe has not moved or done anything since these pics were done, but I'll be pulling the spindle shortly just to be on th safe side.

 

[William E Williams]

http://www.davecoxon.co.uk/lathe/18_unknown.JPG
Not sure what this is? It was in the 'box of bits'

That is a South Bend part, I just can't recall where I saw it at.

Ted

 

[JND]

That looks like the stud gear shaft,below the revesing gears. Thats prob. what he's looking for.They may have gone away from the bushing,and switched to the stepped bolt.They made alot of changes on these 13"s as I've been finding out also.