New shop considering NX Cam.

[empower]

This is the second or third time I've seen catia mentioned ... personally, I'd rather put my dick on the kitchen table and smack it with a deadblow hammer than open catia ever again. That thing was designed for the express purpose of driving people to suicide. It's awful.

100000%

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

Current NX user here, NX 12 to be exact. The engineering staff doesn't like to upgrade often because of bugs, but they have to because our CAM is on the same package. Anyways, I like NX but I don't pay for it. I wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole if I was buying. Their prices are INSANE! Regarding the post processors, they are using post configurator now and have or will be phasing post builder out. If you want to be able to FULLY edit the code of your posts, you will have to buy the license to do so. $10k for that license. That's the other thing I hate about Siemens. They charge for every damn thing. It's just like micro transactions in gaming. It should be illegal, but that's just my opinion. So in essence, you have to buy licenses for everything you want to use.

 

[gkoenig]

Current NX user here, NX 12 to be exact. The engineering staff doesn't like to upgrade often because of bugs, but they have to because our CAM is on the same package. Anyways, I like NX but I don't pay for it. I wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole if I was buying. Their prices are INSANE! Regarding the post processors, they are using post configurator now and have or will be phasing post builder out. If you want to be able to FULLY edit the code of your posts, you will have to buy the license to do so. $10k for that license. That's the other thing I hate about Siemens. They charge for every damn thing. It's just like micro transactions in gaming. It should be illegal, but that's just my opinion. So in essence, you have to buy licenses for everything you want to use.

My biggest gripe with NX is the pricing - it is just flat out absurd.

They do have a token system, but it is geared for 10+ seat installs and they sell a minimum 100 token pool for $14k. You just buy everyone a basic seat of CAD and major features all have a token value - you just check out the feature, it deducts that token value from the pool until you release them for someone else to use. It is actually a pretty decent model for giving a team wildly powerful tools at a rational price.

I would be more than happy if NX went full coin-op with 24 hour single-use tokens. Nesting is something I occasioanlly need to do, but a NX Nesting license is $3500 - absurd. It is a 5 token feature, so if I could just pay $5 to use it, 4 times a year? Perfect - totally matches the value proposition. Or if I use 100 tokens to gain access to a Full Post Config license for a month while I dial-in a new machine's post? Charge my card!

 

[CTFL]

My biggest gripe with NX is the pricing - it is just flat out absurd.

How long has it been since you have priced it out?

Here is a quote I just received. It will tackle CAD and CAM for Mill/Turn.
I asked about "Cam-only" in a meeting with them. They said, no, this package includes CAD as well.
This is subscription pricing.

Or if I use 100 tokens to gain access to a Full Post Config license for a month while I dial-in a new machine's post? Charge my card!

Is the Full Pos Config the Same as "interactive post configurator" found it quote details above?


For reference. SolidCAM (not including SW) was 24k for similar package, 4k maintenance per year + whatever cost of SW is for CAD.

 

[Marvel]

How long has it been since you have priced it out?

Here is a quote I just received. It will tackle CAD and CAM for Mill/Turn.
I asked about "Cam-only" in a meeting with them. They said, no, this package includes CAD as well.
This is subscription pricing.

View attachment 417416

Is the Full Pos Config the Same as "interactive post configurator" found it quote details above?


For reference. SolidCAM (not including SW) was 24k for similar package, 4k maintenance per year + whatever cost of SW is for CAD.

NX has came down in price quite a bit in the last few years, even when I was buying a CAM seat in 2019, in comparison to CAMWorks including SolidWorks Standard seat, NX was about 10% more, the annual maintenance was around $2k more a year. That was a negotiated pricing, the last NX quote I received about a year ago this month was $16k for a 3 year subscription for a Mill Package, they wouldn't offer a license.

But in comparison my CAMWorks seat does included Turning and Mill/Turn modules, I didn't have use for either of them so it was an irrelevant factor at the time for me. I ended sticking with what I knew, CAMWorks, and paid $12k for a Milling Pro seat, I have full 3 Axis, 4th Axis Simultaneous, Mill/Turn, and Turning and that also included my SolidWorks Standard seat, my annual cost, I did a 3 year deal last year, for $9500, again that also includes SolidWorks cost.

I've done some price comparing recently and honestly have found SolidCAM to be the one that is overpriced. I think where NX gets crazy expensive is the full CAD/CAM packages. I could be wrong here but from what I understood the CAM packages don't include the full CAD side of NX.

 

[CTFL]

NX has came down in price quite a bit in the last few years, even when I was buying a CAM seat in 2019, in comparison to CAMWorks including SolidWorks Standard seat, NX was about 10% more, the annual maintenance was around $2k more a year. That was a negotiated pricing, the last NX quote I received about a year ago this month was $16k for a 3 year subscription for a Mill Package, they wouldn't offer a license.

But in comparison my CAMWorks seat does included Turning and Mill/Turn modules, I didn't have use for either of them so it was an irrelevant factor at the time for me. I ended sticking with what I knew, CAMWorks, and paid $12k for a Milling Pro seat, I have full 3 Axis, 4th Axis Simultaneous, Mill/Turn, and Turning and that also included my SolidWorks Standard seat, my annual cost, I did a 3 year deal last year, for $9500, again that also includes SolidWorks cost.

I've done some price comparing recently and honestly have found SolidCAM to be the one that is overpriced. I think where NX gets crazy expensive is the full CAD/CAM packages. I could be wrong here but from what I understood the CAM packages don't include the full CAD side of NX.

Here is another quote. This one looks to tackle both the CAD and CAM side.

Im reaching out to NX again today to try and get some definitive clarity on what level of CAD these packages use. I'll post results

 

[empower]

NX has came down in price quite a bit in the last few years, even when I was buying a CAM seat in 2019, in comparison to CAMWorks including SolidWorks Standard seat, NX was about 10% more, the annual maintenance was around $2k more a year. That was a negotiated pricing, the last NX quote I received about a year ago this month was $16k for a 3 year subscription for a Mill Package, they wouldn't offer a license.

But in comparison my CAMWorks seat does included Turning and Mill/Turn modules, I didn't have use for either of them so it was an irrelevant factor at the time for me. I ended sticking with what I knew, CAMWorks, and paid $12k for a Milling Pro seat, I have full 3 Axis, 4th Axis Simultaneous, Mill/Turn, and Turning and that also included my SolidWorks Standard seat, my annual cost, I did a 3 year deal last year, for $9500, again that also includes SolidWorks cost.

I've done some price comparing recently and honestly have found SolidCAM to be the one that is overpriced. I think where NX gets crazy expensive is the full CAD/CAM packages. I could be wrong here but from what I understood the CAM packages don't include the full CAD side of NX.

the CAD side of a CAD/CAM package is quite powerful, but doesnt have all the bells and whistles that you could get. however those are mostly specialized for different industries etc and would hardly be needed for a programmer. the only one i'd make sure to get is the wave linking option. priceless imo. and maybe predictive selection

 

[Marvel]

the CAD side of a CAD/CAM package is quite powerful, but doesnt have all the bells and whistles that you could get. however those are mostly specialized for different industries etc and would hardly be needed for a programmer. the only one i'd make sure to get is the wave linking option. priceless imo. and maybe predictive selection

That's what I got out of the reseller sharing information but wasn't 100% positive, thanks for clarifying.

CAMWorks has a similar dumbed down version of SolidWorks they offer, CAMWorks Solids, you lose some functionality from the SolidWorks Standard seat and save like 50% on the CAD side. Actually I think it's getting discontinued, I believe SolidCAM has something similar as well.

This goes to something I've shared many times when one asks about CAM options and CAD gets drug into it, "NX CAD is top of the line, nothing comes close......" BLAH BLAH.

I would say every programmer should have a solid CAD system. But understand there are just simply programmers out there that have very minimal need for CAD use besides some basic sketches here and there and MasterCAM's "CAD" is just fine. Yes of course there are many like you and I that see the value behind having a integrated CAD/CAM system as well. But IMO dragging how powerful NX's CAD is into a CAM comparison is somewhat irrelevant to many programmers.

 

[CTFL]

I will probably be using CAD quite a bit. 100% not at the level full fledge design engineers do.
There will be some API involved in stock size requirements, differences of stock and volume of finished part.
Maybe some tricky model correction/ improvements for up to 3d surfaces of customer parts.
Fixture and assembly design, product design (in the future)

And yeah, that "CAD" from MasterCAM might as well stand for Certified Ass Discharge (1st thing that popped in my mind)

 

[gkoenig]

How long has it been since you have priced it out?

Here is a quote I just received. It will tackle CAD and CAM for Mill/Turn.
I asked about "Cam-only" in a meeting with them. They said, no, this package includes CAD as well.
This is subscription pricing.

View attachment 417416

Is the Full Pos Config the Same as "interactive post configurator" found it quote details above?


For reference. SolidCAM (not including SW) was 24k for similar package, 4k maintenance per year + whatever cost of SW is for CAD.

Yea- that price is kind of insane. $13k for CAM, add another $7k for the CAD… you are at $20k per year for a *subscription*.

SolidWorks is running about $6k + $1500.

So over 5 years:

NX Total Machining + CAD: $100,000

SolidCAM + SolidWorks: $57,500

Is NX better? Absolutely!
Is it so much better you’ll have a brand new BMW 3 Series worth of productivity every 5 years? Probably not!

And those numbers get positively horrific if you keep adding years onto the calculations.

Subscription was supposed to make software less expensive and more accessible (see: Adobe, or Fusion). NX decided to price subscription in a way that totally nukes that advantage.

 

[gkoenig]

I will add one note to my vociferous above post- one *nice* thing about NX is that you don’t need to get everyone seats of Total Machining. If you are at ~5 programmers, get 4 seats of basic 3 axis CAD/CAM and one Total Machining. They can check the more advanced modules out via the license server (turning, 5 axis, etc).

But again- if you are a one-man band, the pricing on NX is flat-out punishing and none of the (good!) schemes of license sharing or Tokens is going to help. Most VARs will offer a small-business startup deal for a few years, but you are back to the land of wolves pricing after 3 years.

 

[empower]

Yea- that price is kind of insane. $13k for CAM, add another $7k for the CAD… you are at $20k per year for a *subscription*.

SolidWorks is running about $6k + $1500.

So over 5 years:

NX Total Machining + CAD: $100,000

SolidCAM + SolidWorks: $57,500

Is NX better? Absolutely!
Is it so much better you’ll have a brand new BMW 3 Series worth of productivity every 5 years? Probably not!

And those numbers get positively horrific if you keep adding years onto the calculations.

Subscription was supposed to make software less expensive and more accessible (see: Adobe, or Fusion). NX decided to price subscription in a way that totally nukes that advantage.

that price is with CAD.

 

[CTFL]

Gkoenig,

I'm double checking today the CAD/CAM package prices. From my initial gatherings, those prices were inclusive. Maybe I saw, heard, understood that incorrectly.

If my understanding was correct and CAD is included, what do you think of the price now?

The BMW thought process is correct. There may not be that much direct value.
My additional thought process is the exclusivity factor.
If that gets me into just one, literally just one of the higher up companies doors, then I'll have a M3, CS model mind you, value gain in a positive direction.

(PS, practical machinist needs autocorrect for simple spelling errors, geez)

 

[gkoenig]

that price is with CAD.

Are you sure? It flat out says NX CAM Only in the description.

 

[CTFL]

Are you sure? It flat out says NX CAM Only in the description.

In a phone call with them I asked about that. They said CAD as well. Looks otherwise though, right?
I admit maybe my brain might have heard what I wanted to hear.
Finding out today hopefully.

 

[empower]

Are you sure? It flat out says NX CAM Only in the description.

i dont believe its possible to get CAM without the CAD.

 

[Marvel]

Are you sure? It flat out says NX CAM Only in the description.

It's what @empower clarified above, it's not NX's full CAD system, its a CAD/CAM version, directed at CAM use.

 

[Areo Defense]

...Is NX better? Absolutely!
Is it so much better you’ll have a brand new BMW 3 Series worth of productivity every 5 years? Probably not!...

Depends on the site. We used NX Studio Modeling, Sychronous and Advanced Assemblies a lot. Even NX's plain jane free form modeling blows away SWX. We modeled parts that I would struggle with in SWX. We had a huge customer supplying STL models and we could manipulate them extensively; not to mention using NX hybrid convergent technology- that unique child of a midnight rendezvous between a super model(er) and a shape-shifting alien STL, lol. And the cam, well that's whole other story right there. Does anyone need all that for prismatic parts? Most likely not at all but if you do need it then NX can be a savior.

 

[gkoenig]

i dont believe its possible to get CAM without the CAD.

So every NX CAM seat comes with NX CAM Foundation that includes Gateway (the basic NX environment with no applications) and the CAM Application. That CAM application includes a decent suite of very very basic CAD tools. I just fired mine up and I can:

Sketch
Create curves
Create some primitives
Create patch surfaces
All Synchronous tools
Wave Link
Add Assembly Components
Create/Manipulate datums

What I can't do is any *new* geometry from sketches. No extrudes, revolves, sweeps, chamfers, etc etc. We're talking geometry manipulation only, intended for preparing/working with imported solids in a CAM environment.

 

[CTFL]

So every NX CAM seat comes with NX CAM Foundation that includes Gateway (the basic NX environment with no applications) and the CAM Application. That CAM application includes a decent suite of very very basic CAD tools. I just fired mine up and I can:

Sketch
Create curves
Create some primitives
Create patch surfaces
All Synchronous tools
Wave Link
Add Assembly Components
Create/Manipulate datums

What I can't do is any *new* geometry from sketches. No extrudes, revolves, sweeps, chamfers, etc etc. We're talking geometry manipulation only, intended for preparing/working with imported solids in a CAM environment.

That is a great point you bring up.
I'll need to ask about that.

New geometry is absolutely necessary in my case.
Thanks.