Sentry Business insurance

[cosmos_275]

I asked what it would cost to cancel the policy.

My policy renews every year. If I want to ditch them, I just opt to not renew. Maybe there's a cost to cancel mid year? I can't think what else they'd be talking about.

 

[Ox]

I don't understand that "cost to cancel" thing either.... ???

Was there some set-up costs to start the year that has been ammoritized?
If you quit sending money - will they not quite covering you?
Did you sign some full year agreement at your anniversory date?

Personally, it sounds like they are just telling you this in effort to keep you paying for the next 11 months.

???

On the other hand, I'm not sure if $2800 is a good or a bad price.
I don't deal with such things.
But it doesn't seem all that out of bounds either....

I wouldn't want to cover you for that that amount, so ...


-----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Pete Deal]

I’ve been working on insurance here too. I got the same bs of 370 some thousand minimum to rebuild the building. I told them I only want to insure the building for $150k or so. No can do. And they keep asking product liability type things in spite of the fact that I tell them i don’t want that.

I’m rethinking things a little. I probably need to be leasing the building (my building) to the company. Probably better for liability anyway. Then just get insurance for the equipment. And maybe a separate policy for the building.

 

[metal-ica]

If you insure for $300/ft and have a total loss … you can get a public adjuster to help you justify the $300 (and maybe 150% of that depending on your policy). You can pocket that money and have your local builder build it for $125 or whatever. At least I know that’s how it works in residential.

I’m confident Sentry will cut you a check if it happens.

I have $3+m in coverage including a commercial auto.

Federated ~ $12k/year
Sentry ~ $10k/year

If I were you I’d keep the policy in place and shop it before it renews next year

 

[Garwood]

I’ve been working on insurance here too. I got the same bs of 370 some thousand minimum to rebuild the building. I told them I only want to insure the building for $150k or so. No can do. And they keep asking product liability type things in spite of the fact that I tell them i don’t want that.

I’m rethinking things a little. I probably need to be leasing the building (my building) to the company. Probably better for liability anyway. Then just get insurance for the equipment. And maybe a separate policy for the building.

A trust should own the building. Your llc should lease from the trust. You should have absolutely no assets whatsoever besides some good boots and a work truck.

 

[Fal Grunt]

A trust should own the building. Your llc should lease from the trust. You should have absolutely no assets whatsoever besides some good boots and a work truck.

That's exactly what we are working towards. Course, good boots and a work truck are getting harder and harder to find

 

[Pete Deal]

A trust should own the building. Your llc should lease from the trust. You should have absolutely no assets whatsoever besides some good boots and a work truck.

A trust you say... We got one of those after between $5-10k given to a lawyer. And to change it we'll give him another pile of money because it doesn't address this issue. The whole thing is so confusing for my simple mind.

 

[DanielG]

Automotive, consumer, aerospace, it all would prevent me from getting product liability.

Aerospace products liability is readily available, it's just expensive. Trust me, if you don't need aerospace products liability, you really don't want to be paying the bill for it.

I have a very good local agent who handles all of my policies: general liability, products liability (aerospace), professional liability, inland marine, workers comp, and non-owned auto.

 

[Ries]

I don't mind paying for insurance if it is logical, reasonable, and I have some inkling that the company is honest and forth rite. $351 a sq ft is 12,229% higher than what my local builder quoted. The fact that they won't say whether or not they will pay it, tells me they won't pay it.

Well, two things.

One, I have tried every local insurance broker. If you are honest with them, and you machine anything for consumer products, or anything for industry, then you are un-insurable. I could lie, or obfuscate the truth, like many do and advocate doing, but I won't.

Second, I am sure your premiums are high, but if you have 7 buildings on a farm, you probably have significantly higher earnings than me, and probably pay less in property taxes. Your interest for loans are federally subsidized, and your insurance includes crop losses, etc. So are they comparable? Probably not.

I doubt Texas property tax is lower than Washington State, but I guess it could be. My big field is rented to a real farmer, it’s certified organic, and I know nothing about their loans. I just cash the checks. All my buildings are for my business, not ag. Earnings? Depends on the year, but I am slowly admitting to myself I am retired, and am hardly rolling in dough. But I still need to insure the buildings and machinery, and as I said, homeowners insurance wont touch em.

 

[standardparts]

A trust should own the building. Your llc should lease from the trust. You should have absolutely no assets whatsoever besides some good boots and a work truck.

What kind of "trust" are you referring to? Can tell you right now the very common living/irrevocable trust can be pierced by a savvy attorney at least here in Wisconsin.

 

[kb0thn]

I doubt Texas property tax is lower than Washington State, but I guess it could be. My big field is rented to a real farmer, it’s certified organic, and I know nothing about their loans. I just cash the checks. All my buildings are for my business, not ag. Earnings? Depends on the year, but I am slowly admitting to myself I am retired, and am hardly rolling in dough. But I still need to insure the buildings and machinery, and as I said, homeowners insurance wont touch em.

If you are retired, why do you need to insure the buildings and machinery? Do you need them?

My home shop is pretty nice. If it burned down I would be out $200k+. But I don't have any coverage on it and it doesn't really matter to me. If I am careless and ruin the place I will either do without or pony up the money and fix it myself. I don't owe anyone anything on it and it would just be my problem. I'm betting on myself that I don't screw up too badly and saving $4k a year on insurance.

I feel the same about vehicles. I only carry the minimum the state requires. I can either buy whatever replacement I want or at least would be able to buy a beater and get by. Not going to pay them multiple thousands per year for a replacement plan. Insurance seems like gambling, the house always has to win for it to work.

With regard to my business insurance I feel the same about vehicles. But the otherwise the sums of money and the requirements to keep up on operating do kind of make me need insurance. I can afford a replacement pickup truck, but I can't do without the business shop and the millions in equipment that is my livelihood.

 

[Farmer Phil]

Sentry is writing this policy on admitted paper, meaning it's filed with the state and everything is set in stone.

Depending on how much time has passed since the renewal and now, but if not more than a month, you should be able to surrender the policy, sign and form, and it just goes away.

If that isn't possible, then the policy is either going to be canceled on a pro-rated basis or short-rate basis. Prorated, you merely pay for the days you have coverage. Short rated, you pay the days of coverage as well as a small cost which is their administrative fees basically. I guess that prorated is how yours would be canceled.

Something that is often overlooked with commercial property coverage is debris removal. You might very well be able to build a brand new building for X. You aren't going to be able to do that until the site is able to be worked. Who do you want to pay for all of that? When I was in the insurance business, I've seen some pretty large debris removal costs. Take it for what it is, but failure to read and understand your insurance policy can be costly. Either you do it, or find someone you really trust to do it for you.

 

[Superbowl]

Insurance companies are like the government, huge organizations with thousands of low level employees with no power to make decisions. Their actuaries make predictions on future losses and set rates. They use models that group businesses into big pools that would include some more risky businesses with less risky ones. They likewise pool building types with out regard to every structure type and set a typical cost per square foot to rebuild. I doubt pole buildings are a separate category so they are lumped in with other types of construction.

Insurance companies have had huge losses recently as building costs have soared with inflation. Fires, floods, tornadoes, ect. have increased in frequency.

Since they are required by law to keep much of their loss reserves in very safe investments like bonds, they are also stuck with big losses on ultra low interest rate bonds they had to buy over the last 15 years.

The low level employees you deal with can only put you onto one of the various pools and quote a rate from its charts. They have no authority to make changes or special exceptions. You are too small of a fish, a $2,800 premium is nothing to these companies. It is too little for them to send an expert out to look over your operation for a special quote. If you had a giant factory and the premium would be $100,000 a year, then it would be worth sending someone out to look things over for a custom quote.

Imagine if your shop burned down with a, let's say, $280,000 loss. Considering their overhead, they would need to have sold maybe 150 other $2,800 policies just to break even.

Is it really worth going uninsured?? If you did have such a loss it would take a hundred years of saving $2,800. You could not make it up in your remaining lifetime. Plus the premium is tax deductible so it actually costs less. And you might have a smaller $10,000--$20,000 which is much more common than a total loss which would offset the premium.

 

[Superbowl]

What kind of "trust" are you referring to? Can tell you right now the very common living/irrevocable trust can be pierced by a savvy attorney at least here in Wisconsin.

You have it wrong. A living trust is usually revocable. That type of trust is just to make it easier for your heirs when you die. It is pierceable by a court because you still have full control and can revoke it.

An irrevocable trust does give you protection because it is a separate entity like a corporation.

 

[Superbowl]

I had another thought. Try an insurance company that specializes in farms. They would know what a pole building is.

 

[Fal Grunt]

I appreciate all the commentary! I am reading everything.

Sentry is coming out thursday to meet with me. The local rep assures me that the woman at corporate is incorrect and they can make changes to my policy.