VR11 purchase seeking input.

[dirtroadjedi]

Good morning/afternoon everyone.

We've been looking at purchasing a VR11 to replace a 12 year old aging Fryer with 2 axis head that's been used and abused beyond what it was designed for. We're a mold builder and do a lot of compound angled pockets and holes but don't have a Mori/Fooke budget. The Fryer head was actually designed for woodworking but in a constant drive to save costs we were told and assured it would do the light machining we wanted. It did not. Everything about the Haas looks appealing, the axis brake, HSK63A, the torque capability. All light years above what our current machine can do. I'm not expecting the same kind of power that our VF9 has but if we could setup a rough block and run a new mold from start to finish albeit a little slower I'd be much more comfortable about the purchase. We are not a production shop, I wouldn't be beating the pants off this thing but I'd expect much better run time than we're currently experiencing.

I'm curious for anyone using this specific gimbal head what have your overall experiences been?

What size drilling and tapping can you do in aluminum?​

What type of steel work/cut depths are you doing if any?​

Is the head difficult to knock out of alignment?​

Have you fixed alignment issues yourself or has/must a Haas technician been involved?​

I've found multiple part numbers on Haas' maintenance website referencing 'HSD' part numbers however all Haas will say is the gimbal head is Italian made, the same as HSD.​

Can anyone confirm that HSD is the original manufacturer?​

Any general tips/horror stories you could share that I can forward up the chain?​

We were told Haas is actually releasing a new fork structure type head built in house by Haas. I believe they've sold one or two so far. We're not wanting to be a guinea pig like we were with our first Fryer purchase so we're actually leaning towards a really nice used unit. Do any of you have any opinion on this new head from a Haas prototype/testing standpoint? Haas has said we can get support for the original gimbal head and they will keep a stock of them into the future for old repairs and replacement. It seems to us that the gimbal head has been tried and proven over several years. That said I wonder about the ease of a swap from the gimbal to the new fork head 5-10 years down the line. We still can't get a direct answer from Haas about this.

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can offer.

 

[empower]

Good morning/afternoon everyone.

We've been looking at purchasing a VR11 to replace a 12 year old aging Fryer with 2 axis head that's been used and abused beyond what it was designed for. We're a mold builder and do a lot of compound angled pockets and holes but don't have a Mori/Fooke budget. The Fryer head was actually designed for woodworking but in a constant drive to save costs we were told and assured it would do the light machining we wanted. It did not. Everything about the Haas looks appealing, the axis brake, HSK63A, the torque capability. All light years above what our current machine can do. I'm not expecting the same kind of power that our VF9 has but if we could setup a rough block and run a new mold from start to finish albeit a little slower I'd be much more comfortable about the purchase. We are not a production shop, I wouldn't be beating the pants off this thing but I'd expect much better run time than we're currently experiencing.

I'm curious for anyone using this specific gimbal head what have your overall experiences been?

What size drilling and tapping can you do in aluminum?​

What type of steel work/cut depths are you doing if any?​

Is the head difficult to knock out of alignment?​

Have you fixed alignment issues yourself or has/must a Haas technician been involved?​

I've found multiple part numbers on Haas' maintenance website referencing 'HSD' part numbers however all Haas will say is the gimbal head is Italian made, the same as HSD.​

Can anyone confirm that HSD is the original manufacturer?​

Any general tips/horror stories you could share that I can forward up the chain?​

We were told Haas is actually releasing a new fork structure type head built in house by Haas. I believe they've sold one or two so far. We're not wanting to be a guinea pig like we were with our first Fryer purchase so we're actually leaning towards a really nice used unit. Do any of you have any opinion on this new head from a Haas prototype/testing standpoint? Haas has said we can get support for the original gimbal head and they will keep a stock of them into the future for old repairs and replacement. It seems to us that the gimbal head has been tried and proven over several years. That said I wonder about the ease of a swap from the gimbal to the new fork head 5-10 years down the line. We still can't get a direct answer from Haas about this.

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can offer.

i have a buddy with a VR9 and they do tooling board/mdf type work. anything harder than that and it struggles. along with your normal haas issues...
what materials are you working with?

 

[dirtroadjedi]

i have a buddy with a VR9 and they do tooling board/mdf type work. anything harder than that and it struggles. along with your normal haas issues...
what materials are you working with?

Generally 7075 99.9%, however we've been revising older molds lately and reinforcing pinch off with 5/8 thick 4140 inserts. So worst case if I could creep through that I would be more than happy but it's not required.

 

[empower]

Generally 7075 99.9%, however we've been revising older molds lately and reinforcing pinch off with 5/8 thick 4140 inserts. So worst case if I could creep through that I would be more than happy but it's not required.

i think you're gonna struggle.

 

[dirtroadjedi]

i think you're gonna struggle.

With 7075?

The tool steel was just a wish list item, we have other machines to do that work after the fact.

 

[Houdini]

There are a lot of us been burned by poor Haas engineering, Sure there cheap, but then there cheap.
I have 5 simple machines, I wont buy another Haas, and a multi axis head, OUCH!
I personally will spend the more money from now on.

 

[empower]

With 7075?

The tool steel was just a wish list item, we have other machines to do that work after the fact.

yes, with 7075.

 

[Kingbob]

No personal experience with any of these but we did briefly look at tilting head vmc's years back for some work that I am glad we don't do anymore. That being said I'd look at hurco https://www.hurco.com/en-us/products/5-axis/Pages/5-Axis-Swivel-Head-Machining-Centers.aspx.

No experience with them even as a company, never even drove one, but I know they have been at the tilting head game for longer than haas and they are, as far as I know, a more budget friendly machine. I think

 

[dirtroadjedi]

No personal experience with any of these but we did briefly look at tilting head vmc's years back for some work that I am glad we don't do anymore. That being said I'd look at hurco https://www.hurco.com/en-us/products/5-axis/Pages/5-Axis-Swivel-Head-Machining-Centers.aspx.

No experience with them even as a company, never even drove one, but I know they have been at the tilting head game for longer than haas and they are, as far as I know, a more budget friendly machine. I think

Those look like great machines but the travel just isn't there.

 

[Speedie]

Get scales! They have a 18kw es779 spindle and HSD makes a 24kw with the same proportions. Should be fine with lighter cuts. Haas control handles 5 axis pretty well. Ask them about the 24kw spindle, I bet the will bite. Dont get any machine with a hitecho spindle. They are prone to high maintenance and disaster

 

[coyoinu]

the haas is gonna make you sad

 

[dirtroadjedi]

Curious about your opinions here. New design (I don't want to be a guinea pig however).

20,000-rpm Dual-Support Spindle, HSK-A63

www.haascnc.com

I have video of it tapping what appears to be 1/2-13 in steel, though assuming it's just cold roll. Rather large torque curve (over double) of the old spindle.

Thanks for the information thus far.

 

[Houdini]

View attachment 430967
Curious about your opinions here. New design (I don't want to be a guinea pig however).

20,000-rpm Dual-Support Spindle, HSK-A63

www.haascnc.com

I have video of it tapping what appears to be 1/2-13 in steel, though assuming it's just cold roll. Rather large torque curve (over double) of the old spindle.

Thanks for the information thus far.

If we have learned anything, especially lately with Haas, you DO NOT want to be a guinea pig!

 

[dirtroadjedi]

There are a lot of us been burned by poor Haas engineering, Sure there cheap, but then there cheap.
I have 5 simple machines, I wont buy another Haas, and a multi axis head, OUCH!
I personally will spend the more money from now on.

We looked at a couple used machines and they had some Fookes in the same facility. I would LOVE to run one of those but our facility doesn't have that kind of production capital. Like I said we've been limping along using a head meant for woodworking for over a decade if tha tells you anything. But that machine is wearing out and I'm aiming for a stronger replacement while still being able to facilitate a replacement.

We can job out a lot of 5 axis work for $1.5 million.

 

[Houdini]

I also think DN Solutions has a machine, but unless you order something from EmGo from China, Haas prices are all by them selves, But I personally would never do it again, especially with that much dinero.

 

[plastikdreams]

I've never seen a haas struggle in 7075 or 2024...

 

[Speedie]

View attachment 430967
Curious about your opinions here. New design (I don't want to be a guinea pig however).

20,000-rpm Dual-Support Spindle, HSK-A63

www.haascnc.com

I have video of it tapping what appears to be 1/2-13 in steel, though assuming it's just cold roll. Rather large torque curve (over double) of the old spindle.

Thanks for the information thus far.

Like I was sayin...

 

[empower]

Get scales! They have a 18kw es779 spindle and HSD makes a 24kw with the same proportions. Should be fine with lighter cuts. Haas control handles 5 axis pretty well. Ask them about the 24kw spindle, I bet the will bite. Dont get any machine with a hitecho spindle. They are prone to high maintenance and disaster

if you think haas handles 5 axis pretty well, wait till you run a REAL 5 axis machine... lol

 

[empower]

I've never seen a haas struggle in 7075 or 2024...

do you know what the VR machine is? because its VERY different from their normal machines, even 5 axis ones.
they might as well be wet noodles, the VR series that is.

 

[empower]

just priced out the VR11 with the 'upgraded' spindle, and its at 450k after discount.

this is what we paid (overpaid, the guy that originally set up the deal for these was an idiot and is no longer with the company) for CMS 5 axis gantry machines with 4.8x1.8m work envelope.


note this is for TWO machines. after i came into the picture and started dealing with CMS, turns out that these machines start at the low 300k mark.
now its still a router machine, you wont be doing heavy roughing, but i've cut aluminum on it and as long as you stay under 10% radial engagement with tools under 3/4" diameter, you'll be fine. and fanuc will ALWAYS be infinitely better than haas control.
do your research, there are TONS Of other machine builders out there that are WAY better than haas junk, for same or sometimes even less money!