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Anyone here forced to take a pay cut ???

Racer Al makes a very good point about not letting emotion affect your judgement. Case in point, you said you can't leave Michigan, where your daughter is buried - that's an emotional decision, which could be limiting down the road.

I've had to take pay cuts and it stinks. However, you still have a job and income. That's the bright side which buys you time to figure out what's best for you and your family as time goes on, hopefuly helping to ease your pain.
 
Rockfish

Your in a dieing trade in a dieing industry in a dieing STATE with no short term or long term prospects for that to change for the better.

Michigan will get a lot worse before the bottom is anywhere in sight.

MOVE....

Ray from CFS has had an ad running here on the forum for a week or so. They are in a industry servicing cuatomers that MUST KEEP RUNNING, and are not going away untill some one replaces ELECTRICITY with whatever.

OR...

The Houston TX area... they are over run with OIL and GAS production. THAT industry aint going anywhere either.

Mich is a great state, or it was when I bumed around it 40 yrs ago... so go back and visit on vacations...

Good Luck
 
Rockfish,

I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your daughter. I can't imagine how devastating and disorienting that is. As a Presbyterian minister, one of the things we are taught in seminary is that when someone is dealing with such a loss, it is best to not make any serious decisions that are irreversible for one year. Grief is crippling to us as human beings. We are not in a state of making sound judgments during that grieving period. Give yourself some time.

Joe
 
rockfish,
You have my sympathy also, we lost a son at age 2 in Cincinnati but later moved away. It is not the body but the memory that matters.
I would guess that most manufacturing jobs in Michigan relate to the auto industry which is in decline. With talk of Ford and Chrysler being sold and GM on only a temporary good run it probably isn't going to get any better. You are in an enviroment where everybody expects the worst and that is depressing in itself. As Gary E says other parts of the country are better off if not booming. He is right about the Houston area having work. If your idea is to have your own business Texas has a can do attitude that helps. I came here from Ohio 36 years when the Cincinnati machine tool industry was in similar condition and haven't regretted it.
John
 
Rockfish
=================================================
Your in a dieing trade in a dieing industry in a dieing STATE with no short term or long term prospects for that to change for the better.

Michigan will get a lot worse before the bottom is anywhere in sight.

MOVE....
=================================================
He's right ... but "to where"
Around Milwaukee it's at least that bad , maybe Worse!

I never liked to think (conspiritoryally)....
But any-more I have to based of factual abservation!

The BIG-MONEY world really does "want it all"
every time one of us machining tradesmen makes a move , around here ....it's for a over-all dollars loss ....in order to "shorten the commute"
or escape a really difficult work-setting etc. etc.

Bucyrus Int. is now part of a coalition with the local tech-school and 300lb. representatives from various minority and gov't agencies to make "instant-oatmeal" machinists out of inner-city folks & imagrants " who will be thank-full for the oportunity "....this is factual ...was on Public TV. for all to see!
ANY-THING but pay a progressive wage for progressive skill ???

I left ...two exit interviews to get me to stay ...nothing is changed!

It surely doesn't feel like it now .... but your daughter isn't under the grass .... My Dad was creamated .... and yet I can "feel" his being now and then ???
That's a good thing !!

I'm working for less than I have for years....
but it's stable , human , employment ....in a different line of machining ....and I'm willing to give it a try !!

I am not willing "how-ever" to work for an owner-ship "for less" that has shown their indifference to the individual or collective contribution of the employees!!!

I FEAR that he's also correct .....it's going to get WAY worse , before it get's better

They {BIG-MONEY} won't stop this ...untill they have "train-wrecked the entire econmy"

But DO , give your best shot to a target , derived from your best evaluations....and keep shooting !!!

Phil
 
Not many positive things I can add here.

One factor not mentioned is if you are not getting at least 5% raise every year, you are taking a pay cut. This is the insidious way business has kept stockholder profits high.

BTW, this is not a recent phenomenon. US real wages for work peaked in 1971. Only the top 5% of the executive and specialist white collar workers have continued to get net pay increases. The gap between CEO pay and worker pay is higher than at any time since slavery was outlawed.

Read Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire

My humble solution - anything imported into the US is duty-free, as long as our inspectors on site certify it was produced under the same wage, safety, environmental, etc. rules in effect here. If not, it can't come in, period.

thnx, jv.
 
Rock,

I am NOT looking for sympathy, but my own 32 year old daughter dropped to the pavement 3 years ago next Monday from a massive brain aneurism. Kept "alive" on respirator for about 10 hours.

Was called by one of my other daughters while changing from work to street clothes to go home. Went to tell my boss that I would not be in the next day, had a medical emergency.

HE was PISSED that I did this unscheduled missing of work. "Jesus Christ, I got to do a whole revision of the schedule for tomorrow."

This was US Steel, by the way. Multibillion company. Pissed that he had to change the schedule, little minnow that he was in a HUGE pond.

My other daughter who called me said that if I could be at the local airport in 45 minutes, HER boss, mebbe 50 million per year bookings in highway construction, made his private plane and pilot available to fly us up to where she was lying in a vegetative state.

That is one DAMNED decent boss. My own was one damned big prick.

My youngest daughter's f'in law died almost a year ago. After the ceremony she said " I don't look forward to doing this for you." I said "I hope you have to, I don't want to bury any more of my children."

Nor do I want to have to bury any of the 5 grand kids I have.

The body in the ground is not the thing. The thing is your memory of her. That goes with you wherever you go.

Jobwise, just tell them to pound salt up their ass. You can do without them. IF you can tear yourself loose from your moving away from your daughter's resting place. She wouldn't condemn you.

Cheers,

George
 
Rockfish, you have my deepest sympahy. You are not alone. I left Ohio 11 years ago due to many factors I won't detail here. I am now self employed running a small business. Leaving he "rust belt" was the best thing I ever did. Losing a daughter is the hardest thing I have ever faced. Mine died suddenly 2 years ago of an aortic aneurysm at 25 and my life will never be the same. I was, as always, at work at the time. On January 24th, 2005, sometime between 7:30pm (last time we spoke on the phone) and 10:40 when I got home, she had passed. I tried CPR to no avail. I will always regret that I was not with her. My daughter is buried here and I don't think I could ever leave. I'd like to tell you two years out that things wil get better. They don't. It gets different but not better at least for me. You are stuck but realize, your daughter will always be with you no matter where you go. I know this may sound crass or distasteful to some, but if you leave MI, you can take her with you and have her re-intered close to where you move.

[ 03-28-2007, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: dbc58 ]
 
Rockfish,

Sorry about your daughter.

My employer is begging for machinists in the DC area.

Pay rate from $20 to $30 per hour depending on what you can convince them you can do.

They hired me six years ago so it must not be too hard to get in.

Are you a manual, cnc, or what type of machinist?

PM me if interested, I'll split the finders fee with you.

Kap
 
Cremation is also an alternative.

Popular for the ppl who really cannot let go. Their loved ones are there, literally, all the time.
 
Rockfish,

The local radio is running an ad for
"Jobs at Aramco"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=jobs+at+aramco+

Now you may or may not be interested or even qualifed for what they want, but the point is that the OIL and GAS industry is NEVER going to go away. And as I understand it, almost ALL of this type work is in Houston or the surounding area.

Now I am reminded of the freekin OIL well I bought into in Michigan back in 1980 or 81...
Boy did I have plans for all the $$ that was gona make...
Why is it that FAT chance, and Slim Chance mean the same thing?
 
Give yourself some time. Give yourself a chance to heal before making any big decisions. You are emotional right now. Deal with your loss now and with work later. God bless.
 
A little over 10 years ago, here at Intel New Mexico, everyone on site took 10% pay cuts in order to keep the place open. Well, it worked for a while but costs (read management) got out of control and our factory is closing. At the same time Intel annouced a $2.5 billion new factory in China.

Moral of the story is that pay cuts without sound management practices will not save the jobs. Anyone know where I can learn to speak Chinese fast?
 
Been there, done that.
My symapthies for your loss. My brother was died from foul play in 1987, and it took years to get over for it (as much as youo can), especially for my parents.
I also was forced to take a pay cut in my first job. I could have done them under the labour laws for constructive dismissal, but being young and green i didn't know about it.
It was the beginning of the end, and I took the cut because I had to, and handed in my notice a few months down the track. Leavign was the best thing I ever did. I never realised how much i hated the place until I left. I was there for 4 years - the first 2 years were ok, the last 2 were hell.
Take the cut if you have to, to buy time. Do a road trip to other states and check out the jobs and living conditions and costs then you can make an informed decision to stay or go. The writing is on the wall where you are.
Geoff
 
Rockfish, so sorry to hear about your daughter. I hope you and your family are comforted with your loss by the Lord.

Moral of the story is that pay cuts without sound management practices will not save the jobs. Anyone know where I can learn to speak Chinese fast?
I have an issue with this. A few years back "Upper management" made the decision to make a company wide work force reduction so as to save the company from certain doom. Sooo the work force was examined then the unnecessary workers were laid off. Also no raises or cost of living was paid that year. Everyone went back to work and the company was pronounced "leaner and more responsive to the needs of the customer".

Fast forward 6 months later and guess who retires but not before pocketing a cool 100 million bounus for saving the company. The board also throws a 33 million bonus to boy axman along with a few other million dollar "bones" to the local choppers for being "good" and "helpfull" during the company's time of dire need. "Stock options" were not published. Who knows what that came to.

Sheese, I'm all for being helpfull to those in need but helping the rich get richer burns me. In the news the other day was an article about how CEO's are pulling in record bounus and salaries.

I wonder if the current situation is real or if its just hipe to line the pockets of the wealthy.
 
Rock,

Sir my heartfelt condolences for your terrible loss.

An employer that can treat an employee,a person,another human being like yours did at such a time of need isn't worth $HIT.
I wish you all the best to you and yours whatever your decision.

kind regards

Dave
 
RF,

I'm really saddened at your loss. It makes me tear just to even think of losing one of my kids. When my kids hurt I hurt.

The wage cut sucks. Some times it needs to happen other times it is just greed. I took the wage cut while others were let go. When it finally came to my time to go all the local jobs were filled by those who were let go ahead of me. I don't know if there is a lesson in there some where.

I see Circuit City is firing all higher paid employees and hiring low paid back. After a while they will offer those fired their jobs back at lower pay. I just bought my last item at CC you can bet.

You gotta hang in there. If you don't they win.

Bill
 
I have't received a pay cut...yet. They are cutting benefits constantly, health insurance goes up 10-20% per year, and the employee bonus program has been completely cancelled so that even if we do well, there will be no bonus. Bonus program for senior management has not been cut however.

I have a contract signed by my employer and I that gives me 5 extra paid vacation days per year. I have been told by HR that it will no longer be honored. It was interesting as the weasel from HR told me that the signed document I possessed was not really a contract, but only an agreement. I asked what is the difference between a signed agreement and a contract and she abruptly ended the meeting. I could easily take them to court, but of course I would be fired. There is an unconditional hiring freeze and people are starting to leave, but they cannot be replaced so all their work gets dumped on the rest of us.

Raises are very poor (if we get them) but my cost of living, especially taxes, insurance and basic living expenses, is going up far faster than my wages, which means I am in reality, getting a pay cut every year.

The cuts don't bother me nearly as much as the unethical behavior. We tell our customers that ethics is our highest priority. Complete nonsense. They have killed my loyalty and comittment to this company for sure. This has actually been a positive benefit for me. I used to have genuine care and concern for costs and quality and would often worry about work projects during my off hours. Not any more. I have cut back my hours (I'm on salary) and I don't worry much any more when projects are late or screwed up. That kind of attitude is against my personal ethical standards, but since the company has dropped their ethical standards, I did as well. When it comes to solving problems, I am satisfied by just figuring out how to solve it. Implementing the solution is not my problem any more. I no longer push to solve problems. If I'm asked to do it, OK, but no more initiative.

I'm not against pay cuts when they are really necessary and I realize that sometimes they are.. It's sometimes just part of the ups and downs of business. However, when they stick it to the working man and pull that kind of petty crap, I'm not going to just bow my head and take it. Costs to run our facility are in excess of $55k per day and we work on a cost plus basis, so taking vacation away from me or refusing to give us a small yearly bonus is not even making a dent in the bottom line.

This is just the beginning I'm afraid. There is more to come. I expect some serious times are ahead for the US economy in the coming years.
 
This is just the beginning I'm afraid. There is more to come. I expect some serious times are ahead for the US economy in the coming years.

Yep, it's all screw everybody & take the money & run! It's world labor cost anywhere they can get cheaper labor that's where they go.

I own a machine shop & have since 1972 I had yearly contracts for parts & stocked the parts 1 yr in advance. 66K worth of many jobs been running them for 20 yrs. They said forget the contract they were sending the jobs to China, I said I have yearly contracts for all of the jobs.

They (Big American CO) said sue us we will buy 1 month worth only! I still have the 35 jobs of parts & when the boat is late they call & buy a few. This is after 30 yrs running their parts.

We all are in deep s**t.
 








 
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