Iron Tour 2015 - Lots of pics

[Peter from Holland]

Impressive!.. Thanks "T" fro posting this.

Not sure how i feel about stacking large lathes like cord wood!
I get that the tail stock end has blocking directly over the base..but on the headstock end, unless the machine was
leveled, with the full length of the head stock bearing the load on the floor evenly..think it would make things go out of straight....

Of course i can't say for sure because i have zero experience with "lathe stacking" and its long term effects.
Here in California....Stacking large heavy objects that aren't bolted down is a real bad idea....

Cheers Ross

Martin got us out of bed real early on Sundaymorning (7.30 ) to visit that dealer Just for our visit he persuaded the guy to open up his shop for a hour or so Thats a brand new warehouse and cramped with machines A few big ones which make for the money The remaining space filled with stacked lathes All of the better German brands like Weisser VDF Weipert Schaerrer and such but old and worn and worth just a couple of thousand euro/pc I dont think stacking them like that would influense their value or even their accuracy Still usable machines in a maintenance department or so Meccanicly those machines are indestructable



Peter from Holland

 

[TNB]

Martin got us out of bed real early on Sundaymorning (7.30 ) to visit that dealer

Yep, and it wasn't only about getting up early... Talk about the german weather (esp. compared to the sundown I had leaving Marseille !)

 

[zephyrous]

Best thread ever,period. (...'till Ross makes a similar trip in Europe)

Keep it coming, T!

 

[TNB]

All was not rosy though...

Anyway after our visit at Herr Franz, we also did visit other dealers who are obviously sooooooo much better painters than mechanics that they could probably open art galleries !

Obviously not the same planet.



On general views, machines look pretty decent. I'd even say rather beautiful...












Not to mention, Schaublins 125's and 150's are pretty rare beasts, so stumbling across a herd of them is always somewhat impressive at first. But once you get into the details... Oh my ! Doesn't take long to figure out where all the efforts went on these machines.

 

[TNB]

Bed wear was visible to the eye (no need to "finger" the ways here !), not to mention the very personnal scraping pattern the local artits left on several of them...

 

[TNB]

That tool cart says all. I liked this one very much !






Of course, one has to consider the starting point.
I don't think I've ever seen such beaten machines. I mean very old decrepit ones ok, but delicate lathes such as the 102 or 125, no.
Didn't think it was possible. Those machines reminded me of the ones one see advertised here and there in Russia or other ex-eastern block countries.

Not something I was expecting to see during this trip.













But seeing those machines was not that depressive an experience.

It also help guys like me who have no professionnal exposure to machines and machining, to get a complete view of the spectrum.
As I asked how come that such machines can be so destroyed, Peter pointed out that their condition was actually the proof that they were good investments and their owners got absolutely all what they could get out of it, down to the last bit.
That Makes sense.

Those machines we saw were not repainted to be sold as artpieces though. They will yet produce parts and probably, good ones.
Good enough at least.
When is good good enough ? The same question often comes up with tolerances. Eternal debate.

 

[TNB]

Luckily, there were other visits to follow that would take us toward the other end of the spectrum....

 

[Peter from Holland]

Luckily, there were other visits to follow that would take us toward the other end of the spectrum....

Tien

Not yet not yet
No Wildbrat yet

Peter from holland

 

[TNB]

Don't worry... After those pics, we can make a few steps before we reach the other end of the spectrum

 

[Peter from Holland]

Anyway after our visit at Herr Franz, we also did visit other dealers who are obviously sooooooo much better painters than mechanics that they could probably open art galleries !

Tien and I had a discussion about the subject of painting and we did noy agree completly I think

The paint I like best is with a smooth finish, not with a textured finisch which is much harder to clean
And it is just that the one dealer which does give a smooth finisch on his machines does not rebuild them
All the rebuilders have a paint with textured finish
I also do not rebuild my machines and every now and then I paint a machine At least I only do paint if the paint is bad and the machine still in good condition otherwise

Tien would like to see all the Schaublin and Deckels have a rebuild at every lustrum I think


Peter from holland

 

[Mud]

Love this great thread, thanks so much for posting these photos.

I'd feel right at home at Singer's, there's something about large expanses of clear floor, empty shelves and clean benchtops that make me feel uneasy.

 

[wrench]

Can you give an idea of how large Singer's place is? I don't think I've seen that (apologize if you have it in here)... I'm still stunned by how *crowded* everything was. For the life of me I cannot figure out how they move anything around there. Now, granted, my place isn't much better, but I'm the only one in it and I'm not selling machinery so stuff isn't coming in/out all the time. For Singer to stay in business with that many employees, I have to assume that he has a fairly good churn of inventory.

You guys are making me envious, by the way. I want to go on a road trip too!

[on edit] Ummm, Mud.... Come on by and visit my place!!!!!! It is especially bad right now because I bought a guy's collection of radio control airplanes. Now I have those hanging around and sitting on machinery to boot. I think I need professional help... <sigh>

 

[Milacron]

On general views, machines look pretty decent. I'd even say rather beautiful...

Not to mention, Schaublins 125's and 150's are pretty rare beasts, so stumbling across a herd of them is always somewhat impressive at first. But once you get into the details... Oh my ! Doesn't take long to figure out where all the efforts went on these machines.

That is an amazing Schaublin sight to behold....was this still in Germany ? I appreciate that you were not fooled by the paint jobs and point out the worn ways to us. Seems like the buyers of same would be seriously annoyed to find that wear after purchase, of what otherwise appears to be a nearly new machine....I wonder if they point it out to prospects ? Any idea the price of the 125 with the starwheel tailstock ? That tailstock would be the one advantage over a Hardinge HLV-H.

 

[Peter from Holland]

Can you give an idea of how large Singer's place is? I don't think I've seen that (apologize if you have it in here)... I'm still stunned by how *crowded* everything was. For the life of me I cannot figure out how they move anything around there. Now, granted, my place isn't much better, but I'm the only one in it and I'm not selling machinery so stuff isn't coming in/out all the time. For Singer to stay in business with that many employees, I have to assume that he has a fairly good churn of inventory.

You guys are making me envious, by the way. I want to go on a road trip too!

[on edit] Ummm, Mud.... Come on by and visit my place!!!!!! It is especially bad right now because I bought a guy's collection of radio control airplanes. Now I have those hanging around and sitting on machinery to boot. I think I need professional help... <sigh>

Tien bribed me So I am waiting your offer
Singers place is not that big
The workshop about 300square meter+ and the storage and office another 200+
So total of 5 to 600mtr2

Peter from Holland

 

[CBlair]

In NY that paint brush cup would sell for a million bucks as sculpture... Thanks for sharing that bit, it is good to have a sense of humor.

Charles

 

[Peter from Holland]

Our trip was not only about shops. It was also about Capuccinos !!! Man those dutch and german people drink liters of them really !!!
Typical schedule was : wake up at 7AM - breakfast at 7:30 first capuccino - Then one capuccino every half an hour untill 10/11:00 PM

Leaving Feucht, we came across that advertising wich I found kind of a funny way to keep a memory of my state of mind at this stage of our little journey...

Our trip was a bussiness trip for sure
I bought a Mikron WF3 and a Deckel SOE And sold my Technica centregrinder
The cappuccinos were just that they did not have any Senseo coffee The first one I got was at your place Say thanks to your wife for that
The most important machine in my shop is the coffeemachine The only one I bought new Bussiness gets done over a cup of coffee where I live

That day we left Feucht Tien could not be any happier And with reasson.............. You find out
About the Wildbrat we missed

Peter from holland

 

[TNB]

When is good good enough ? The same question often comes up with tolerances. Eternal debate.

Speaking of that, I recall a little story.

We were driving on a german highway when Peter got a phone call.
That was one of his employees, Henk or Jop, I can't remember.
He was calling to report the visit of a customer who had previously called Peter and was interested in a machine.
That machine was used Weiler lathe that was advertised for 3000 euros or so.
So this guy showed up at Peter's shop to inspect the lathe with his indicator. Why not...
Except it seems like he was not totally happy with the readings he got from his tests, with what turned out to be a thousandths (of millimeter) dial indicator...

I wonder what could have been his reaction if he had been at the dealer we were, and offered to inspect this machine prior overhauling...
That's not an indicator you need here, rather a measuring tape... but I can hear : "Hey, it will only get better after we take care of it !"

 

[TNB]

Seems like the buyers of same would be seriously annoyed to find that wear after purchase, of what otherwise appears to be a nearly new machine....I wonder if they point it out to prospects ? Any idea the price of the 125 with the starwheel tailstock ? That tailstock would be the one advantage over a Hardinge HLV-H.

As for the price asked for these Schaublins, I have no idea. We didn't dare to ask.
But I doubt it is in the 3/5000 euros range.

Wear was so obvious that one has to wonder what kind of customer buys that kind of machines.

When one buys a worn out machine, it can be because a better machine is not needed for the intended task, or the buyer is willing to overhaul on his own.
In both case, it is my understanding that the last thing one is willing to pay is... a fresh paint.
So if those machines got repainted, it is obviously not to be offered as wrecks or projects...

All I can imagine is a purchases manager screaming through the shop of a big company "Hey Walter !!! What is the brand of the lathe you told me you needed ? Shaw-Bline ? Is that that ?" .. and then a few weeks later, the face of the end-user when he unwraps the machine the boss bought for him...

Does it make sense ?

 

[Peter from Holland]

So this guy showed up at the shop to inspect the lathe with his indicator.
Why not... Except it was a thousandths dial indicator and it seems like he was not happy with the readings he got from his tests.

That was not a 0.001" but a 0.001mm indicator


Peter from Holland

 

[TNB]

I'd feel right at home at Singer's, there's something about large expanses of clear floor, empty shelves and clean benchtops that make me feel uneasy.

So Mud, you don't feel at ease in vast clear shops ?

I don't know if the next one is gonna be for you, then.