Keller Hy-Duty 3

[Doug H]

I have been in the market for a small bandsaw for awhile now for my home shop, but couldn't bring myself to spend the money on a Harbor freight, and everything else was either too large, too expensive, or just sketchy. I had pretty much given up actively searching, with the mindset that something would show up on Craigslist, Offerup, or maybe Facebook.

Last week I was browsing marketplace and a power hacksaw showed up in the listing. The last time I had actually seen one was 45 years ago in shop class. From time to time some little Sears or Wards would show up on marketplace, and I even considered a massive Peerless that was fairly close, but nothing really seemed promising, until this Keller. I searched out the manual, and really looked things over, and then tried to find a couple of videos of one in operation. After doing my homework, I decided it was worth calling about, so I contacted the seller. The seller was a woman who was widowed about a year ago, and before he passed, her husband bought this one to restore. He never got a chance. I tentatively agreed to buy the saw, and made the 7 hour round trip yesterday. I got a late start, so I never got to see the thing in the daylight until I unloaded it this morning. ith the exception of the material stop for cutting multiple parts of the same length, it is 100% complete and original. There were many variants over the years, none really documented in the manuals I was able to find online. This particular machine has a hydraulic lift on the bar on the return sweep, rather than the really complicated mechanical versions I had seen. I had no idea if it worked, and it took awhile for it to prime, but it seems to be at least partially functional. If I really reduce the down pressure, it clearly works well, but at heavier pressures it seems like it is trying, but rather than actually lift the bar, it just reduces the pressure. I will open it up at some point and see how complicated it would be to replace the seals, but it isn't really a priority now. I took the belts of before I did anything else, and oiled all the lube points, and just turned it over by hand until it was completely free. Then I decided to apply power, with no success. The cord was in pretty poor shape, so I replaced it, bypassing the switch, and was rewarded with everything coming to life. I kept spraying oil on the bar, and let it just run for awhile, and then decided to try a test cut. The only blade I had was the rusty old thing that was on the machine, and it was mounted backwards, so I corrected that, and put a piece of 1 1/2 inch hot rolled in the vise. When I lowered the bar, the teeth immediately dug in and started cutting. I was pleasantly surprised by how fast it went thru that, so I made several more cuts, looking for things that might need adjustment while it was running. Tightened the gibs about a quarter turn, and made another cut. The thing was really running smooth. The only thing I absolutely have to repair, is the connecting rod bushings are pretty well worn out, and it was hammering a bit harder than I liked at the end of the strokes. It didn't affect operation but I just felt like it was abusing the machine to run it that sloppy, and really didn't like the idea of continually hammering on cast iron parts, so I went ahead and shut it down, and pulled the connecting rod so I could get the dimensions on the bushings. The crank pin on the flywheel has about 15 thousandths wear so I will order an undersize bushing and machine it to fit, and the pin on the saw frame is replaceable, so I will just press in the bushing and replace the pin. That should remove about 80 percent of the wear on the machine. At some point, I may decide to replace some other bushings, but there is no urgency.

Overall, I am very happy with the machine. Patience paid off and I ended up with one that needed very little work, and fits my needs better than any other saw I can think of. On top of that, I get the honor of keeping a piece of history running a little bit longer. Didn't get any pictures of it since I picked it up but here is one from the add. More to come as I get it cleaned up and find a place for it in the shop.

 

[john.k]

One little point with these saws...use a spacer between work and back jaw ,and you can even out blade wear ......otherwise you ll be replacing blades with 4" of teeth stripped ,and the rest unused.

 

[Doug H]

One little point with these saws...use a spacer between work and back jaw ,and you can even out blade wear ......otherwise you ll be replacing blades with 4" of teeth stripped ,and the rest unused.

That is actually a good point, but with this machine, the rear vise jaw is movable, so I can shift it anywhere on the length of the blade.

 

[animal12]

I was going to buy a power hacksaw just before I bought the used HD 4x6 band saw I have now . The guy selling the hacksaw decided there are times when the hacksaw is better that the bandsaw . That trick of teh spacer gets around & it's a keeper . Maybe 20 years back I made extension tables that went on the table on the scroll saws & spindle sander in our local high school . For a program with just about zero funding making saw blades and sanding drums last was a win for all .
animal

 

[john.k]

My decade long battle with a Racine Oil-Cut is well known ........Im firmly in the bandsaw camp now.

 

[Doug H]

My decade long battle with a Racine Oil-Cut is well known ........Im firmly in the bandsaw camp now.

There is no question that bandsaws are superior, in principle, or the industry wouldn't have gone that way, but I believe that there is still a place for the hacksaw. For one thing, any bandsaw that can match this machine will probably take up 2-3 times the floor space, will be prohibitively expensive to many or most hobbiest/home/farm machinist, and when they start going bad they can cost so much to repair it is cheaper to start over.

I don't know what issues you had with the Racine, but I have no reason to doubt you. Some of these machines are flat worn out, and some were not very good to begin with. Time will tell with the Keller, but all indications are that it will likely fit my needs perfectly. Actually, a bench vise and a portaband would have probably handles most of them, but there is the occasional 6" solid that I need a chunk off of, and just playing around today I chucked a piece in and let the saw chew on it. I only stopped because I didn't want to damage anything, but even with the wrong blade, It got past the heaviest cut and was tapering down. I figure a good 4-6 tooth blade would have doubled the speed. As I said earlier, time will tell, but at this point, I am happy with it.

 

[projectnut]

Personally, I like the old power hacksaws. We had a Racine 66W4 in the shop where I worked. It was still being used in 2006 when I retired. When outfitting my personal shop, (2000) the first saw I went with was a Startrite H175 horizontal bandsaw. Not because I preferred the type, brand, or size, but rather that it was in excellent condition at a more than reasonable price.

The Startrite did all the metal cutting in the shop for nearly a dozen years. However, in 2012 I had several big jobs, and the saw was the choke point. To remedy the situation, I found a Racine 66W2 power hacksaw less than 100 miles away. Since I liked the old Racine at work, I decided to take a look at it.

When I arrived at the seller's place, we went into his shop to look it over. It was a dirty filthy mess setting on a pallet in the corner. It was still full of hydraulic oil and had a couple inches of swarf in the bottom of the tank. I took one look at it and almost walked away. Before I could say anything, the seller said the price wasn't firm and he would take any reasonable offer. I took a little closer look and could see that mechanically it was in decent shape, but at the very least needed a good cleaning.

After the initial shock wore off, I decided it was at least a possibility. As we talked the asking price kept going lower and lower. He even offered to load it in my truck if I would take it off his hands. I figured at the very least I could get my money back at the scrap yard, so I took a chance. Before loading it in the truck he drained all the old oil and wiped it down so as to minimize the mess.

When I got it home, I disassembled it and took everything to the local DIY car wash. Some hot soapy high-pressure water and twenty dollars' worth of quarters later and everything was as clean as a whistle. I took all the parts home and reassembled the machine in the shop. I was in a bit of a hurry, so it never got a proper paint job. I had to put on a new power cord, replace a couple magnetic coils and heaters, (it was wired 440 3 phase) and add a static phase converter. The total cost was less than $250.00 and it was hard at work within a week. It's been the backup for the bandsaw for over 10 years. It doesn't get used on a daily basis, but it more than paid for itself within the first month.

As an FYI if your machine uses 14" blades there is a listing on eBay for boxes of 10 Simmons 4 tpi Red End blades for $19.00 per box plus $17.65 shipping. That's $3.66 per blade which is a more than reasonable price. I was considering them, but I already have about 80 blades in stock. I doubt I'll be needing any more in the near future.

Simonds Red End Power Hacksaw Blades 14” 1 1/4” 4tpi box Of 12 NOS USA | eBay

Never Used open box of Red End Molybdenum Hack Saw Blades.

www.ebay.com

 

[Superbowl]

love my Keller 12 inch. The only issue for power hack saws is getting blades. It took a while to find them but I now have a lifetime supply.

 

[john.k]

Back in the day-pre internet- the local machinery supply house was something like $15 each for 14" blades .......if the net (and China) has done one good thing ,its putting all the old time rip off merchants out of business.

 

[Limy Sami]

To the hacksaw machine knockers I always say something like ;- handsaw 3 bits of 3'' 4140 6'' long off this bar.

 

[Doug H]

As an FYI if your machine uses 14" blades there is a listing on eBay for boxes of 10 Simmons 4 tpi Red End blades for $19.00 per box plus $17.65 shipping. That's $3.66 per blade which is a more than reasonable price. I was considering them, but I already have about 80 blades in stock. I doubt I'll be needing any more in the near future.

Simonds Red End Power Hacksaw Blades 14” 1 1/4” 4tpi box Of 12 NOS USA | eBay

Never Used open box of Red End Molybdenum Hack Saw Blades.

www.ebay.com

I saw those and already had my wife order a box. Wasn't sure if

 

[macsonboy]

I have been in the market for a small bandsaw for awhile now for my home shop, but couldn't bring myself to spend the money on a Harbor freight, and everything else was either too large, too expensive, or just sketchy. I had pretty much given up actively searching, with the mindset that something would show up on Craigslist, Offerup, or maybe Facebook.

Last week I was browsing marketplace and a power hacksaw showed up in the listing. The last time I had actually seen one was 45 years ago in shop class. From time to time some little Sears or Wards would show up on marketplace, and I even considered a massive Peerless that was fairly close, but nothing really seemed promising, until this Keller. I searched out the manual, and really looked things over, and then tried to find a couple of videos of one in operation. After doing my homework, I decided it was worth calling about, so I contacted the seller. The seller was a woman who was widowed about a year ago, and before he passed, her husband bought this one to restore. He never got a chance. I tentatively agreed to buy the saw, and made the 7 hour round trip yesterday. I got a late start, so I never got to see the thing in the daylight until I unloaded it this morning. ith the exception of the material stop for cutting multiple parts of the same length, it is 100% complete and original. There were many variants over the years, none really documented in the manuals I was able to find online. This particular machine has a hydraulic lift on the bar on the return sweep, rather than the really complicated mechanical versions I had seen. I had no idea if it worked, and it took awhile for it to prime, but it seems to be at least partially functional. If I really reduce the down pressure, it clearly works well, but at heavier pressures it seems like it is trying, but rather than actually lift the bar, it just reduces the pressure. I will open it up at some point and see how complicated it would be to replace the seals, but it isn't really a priority now. I took the belts of before I did anything else, and oiled all the lube points, and just turned it over by hand until it was completely free. Then I decided to apply power, with no success. The cord was in pretty poor shape, so I replaced it, bypassing the switch, and was rewarded with everything coming to life. I kept spraying oil on the bar, and let it just run for awhile, and then decided to try a test cut. The only blade I had was the rusty old thing that was on the machine, and it was mounted backwards, so I corrected that, and put a piece of 1 1/2 inch hot rolled in the vise. When I lowered the bar, the teeth immediately dug in and started cutting. I was pleasantly surprised by how fast it went thru that, so I made several more cuts, looking for things that might need adjustment while it was running. Tightened the gibs about a quarter turn, and made another cut. The thing was really running smooth. The only thing I absolutely have to repair, is the connecting rod bushings are pretty well worn out, and it was hammering a bit harder than I liked at the end of the strokes. It didn't affect operation but I just felt like it was abusing the machine to run it that sloppy, and really didn't like the idea of continually hammering on cast iron parts, so I went ahead and shut it down, and pulled the connecting rod so I could get the dimensions on the bushings. The crank pin on the flywheel has about 15 thousandths wear so I will order an undersize bushing and machine it to fit, and the pin on the saw frame is replaceable, so I will just press in the bushing and replace the pin. That should remove about 80 percent of the wear on the machine. At some point, I may decide to replace some other bushings, but there is no urgency.

Overall, I am very happy with the machine. Patience paid off and I ended up with one that needed very little work, and fits my needs better than any other saw I can think of. On top of that, I get the honor of keeping a piece of history running a little bit longer. Didn't get any pictures of it since I picked it up but here is one from the add. More to come as I get it cleaned up and find a place for it in the shop.

looks like a solid little saw!! i have a similar item,,, enjoy

 

[projectnut]

Prices for power hacksaw blades have gone out of sight since the machines have fallen out of popularity in commercial shops. We used to buy Starrett Red Stripe blades from McMaster for less than $5.00 a copy. The company had so many machines we were buying them by the case. When the machines were being replaced with bandsaws the price for power hacksaw blades went down to about $3.00 a copy. Now that they’re harder to get the prices have gone through the roof.

 

[Doug H]

Ordered some oilite a couple of days ago so I could turn some new connecting rod bushings. It got here today, so I pushed out the bushing on the flywheel end and took some measurements. The crankpin was worn unevenly, kind of a bell shape, so I spent a little bit of time with a file and some emery cloth cleaning it up. It was originally 3/4 inch, and when I finished, cleaning it up it was about .735". I turned the new bushing with a .002 press fit in the rod, and .002 clearance on the pin, and pressed it into place. It was still a bit tight on the pin,(thing wasn't really round or straight) so I hit it a little more with the emery cloth, and installed everything. Gave it a shot of oil, and plugged in the saw. I was rewarded by a much more smooth operation, with none of the hammering that had been present before. I really couldn't feel any slop in the small end, but tomorrow I will turn a new pin (the old one is worn unevenly, but is easily replaced) and press in the new bushing. I have no idea how much metal that saw has cut in its life, but I suspect this repair will probably outlive me. If not, it is easy enough to do it again. Also fitted a new Starrett 6 TPI blade to compare to the 10 TPI that was on it when I brought it home. Hard to quantify how much faster it is, but it is noticable. The surface quality was at least as good, so I will probably just leave it, and save the finer blade for pipe and tubing. Have the 4 TPI blades coming, and looking forward to trying them out.

A little more cleaning to do, and then rebuild the coolant pump, and this thing will be ready to rock.

 

[Gary Main]

My Hydryv model 5 will cut with any machine in its size range. It literally rips through anything you put in the vice and its going to be square and smooth. Oil cooled, fresh gibs, and the 14t blade has been on there now 3 years.

 

[crrmeyer]

I picked up a 1980's vintage Keller 3D power hacksaw and have been pretty happy with it. I have other saws for smaller stuff, but the power hacksaw really shines for non-prodution cutting of big things while taking up minimal footprint compared to a horizontal bandsaw. Below is a photo of mine as purchased before I cleaned it up.

 

[Doug H]

Well, I can't say that this was the best machine out there, but after a couple of days of use, I can honestly say that it does everything I need, and then some. I have used it probably a dozen times already for productions cuts, and probably 3 times that much just cleaning up some old drops I had laying around with torch cut ends, etc. I will say that not having it has cost me a great deal over time, just not taking on a number of projects because I didn't have an effective means of cutting stock. It the week since I brought it home, I have dusted off a number of projects that I had set aside, and I am much more productive on the lathe.

 

[projectnut]

Machines like this can be habit forming. I started with a single horizontal/vertical bandsaw. Then came an abrasive chop saw. Next was a power hacksaw. Then contour saw, and most recently a cold saw. I think I’m pretty well covered, but you never know when something else interesting might come. along

 

[Doug H]

Well, I think I have it working about as well as it is going to. I have machined new connecting rod bushings and bearings from oilite, machined a new connecting rod pin(the original was only worn about 5 thousandths, but I figured "why not". I welded up a really low profile frame and turned down some 1 1/2"x 1" wheels from some old bar I picked up somewhere, machined a couple of axles and assembled everything. I set the saw on it, and it only raised it about an inch and a half off the floor. It improves the mobility enough that I can push it back against the wall for storage, and just pull it out when I need to use it. I also rebuilt the vise(not a great design to begin with, but even worse when it has a bunch of slop in it). I just knocked out the roll pins and replaced them with some pins I turned myself, and pressed them in. I may design something else later, but it is much better than it was.

I have 14, 10, and 4 tpi blades for it so far, and I think that will meet just about any need I might have. The first cuts with it had just a little bit of angle to but between all the work I have done on it and just adjusting the gibs, it cuts pretty true now. I was messing around with it and cut a disk off the end of a piece of bar that was thinner than the blade. Still in the process of cleaning it up, but I am in no hurry. Once I get it totally cleaned up, I might give it a new coat of paint, but I don't mind the patina if it is a little worn. Just can't abide by the rust.