Metal Stamping/Forming - Where to Get Started, Recommended Books

[???]

For runs under 5,000 / year does CNC spinning or even manual spinning just make more sense for this part?

Only you can decide this. We don't know what the part is or the sale value.

If you need to test the market spinning would be the cheapest for a small quantity. Press tooling will give better consistency.

Dies are expensive but you can build your own to keep costs down and get a stamping company to run it. Keep in mind that your die needs to fit their press and you need to be sure that they won't destroy it. Stamping companies will be leery of running a die built by a total novice.

 

[Garwood]

I don't think cnc spinning is something you just start doing on a whim. Watch how it's done. Maybe try it on a small scale. I bet when you get a feel for what's going on the idea of programming a cnc to do it will seem pretty daunting. Spinning 5000 pcs/year manually doesn't sound like a sound business idea in a first world country to me.

If you want to do this without a press weighing 20 tons and rigging the only thing I can think of that might be effective is a 4 post hydraulic press, like 40+ tons and a kiln. Heat the blanks to dull red and form them hot. I think you'll need a flange on the part the way it's shaped.

Seems like a part you could trim in a manual lathe or maybe a rotating magnetic/vacuum fixture with a plasma cutter.

I really don't recommend the h frame press route. I knew nothing. I put a lot of work into rigging up garbage without a clue what I was doing. A real metal forming machine is a better choice.

 

[???]

Blanking pressure on a rough blank diameter of 18" will be over 100 ton press. You would want to spec over that for a safety margin and that would do the draw quite easily without having to resort to using heat. Drawing with hydraulic presses make sense in that you can control draw speed etc however in blanking large shapes they make a hell of a noise, enough to make the tools on your workbench bounce. Because it is a relatively shallow draw an eccentric press should cope. Blank and draw can be done in one compound die and then the trim in a separate die.

Personally I would proceed as follows.

1. Spin and test market.
2. If sales and profit justify it build a die.
3. Send die's out to be run, this will enable you to determine press size required without a hit and miss purchasing approach.
4. If sales and profit justify it buy a press and bring the work in house.

 

[Rob F.]

Personally I would proceed as follows.
1 Spin and test market.
2 If sales and profit justify it build a die.
3 Send die's out to be run, this will enable you to determine press size required without a hit and miss purchasing approach.
4 If sales and profit justify it buy a press and bring the work in house.

This is great advice. I may be able to get you a spinning lathe if you care to come to Calif and get it. Or even if you just want to come and try it to see if it can work. You would need to make the mandrel for it, but you will need that no matter what.
I am about a 10-12 hr drive from Phoenix....

 

[goldenfab]

Blanking pressure on a rough blank diameter of 18" will be over 100 ton press. You would want to spec over that for a safety margin and that would do the draw quite easily without having to resort to using heat. Drawing with hydraulic presses make sense in that you can control draw speed etc however in blanking large shapes they make a hell of a noise, enough to make the tools on your workbench bounce. Because it is a relatively shallow draw an eccentric press should cope. Blank and draw can be done in one compound die and then the trim in a separate die.

Personally I would proceed as follows.

1. Spin and test market.
2. If sales and profit justify it build a die.
3. Send die's out to be run, this will enable you to determine press size required without a hit and miss purchasing approach.
4. If sales and profit justify it buy a press and bring the work in house.

That sounds like some solid advice.

This is great advice. I may be able to get you a spinning lathe if you care to come to Calif and get it. Or even if you just want to come and try it to see if it can work. You would need to make the mandrel for it, but you will need that no matter what.
I am about a 10-12 hr drive from Phoenix....

I just sent you a PM.

I just ordered the Metals Handbook Garwood suggested. I need to do some reading and figuring and I'm sure I'll be back with more questions.

 

[adammil1]

Search flanging machine on Google. Most of the ones I saw were humongous but I bet the same concept is used for smaller parts too. I would wonder if you can't sub it out to someone who's got that machine at least for the prototype. Then the nice thing is if you need a different size you're not locked into a piece of tooling.

 

[Rob F.]

I have a good spinning book, I will have to get it out to be able to tell you what it is. I have not looked at it in a few years....

 

[Overland]

Maybe food for thought in this video.
Bob

#DIY #BOOMchallenge | #DIY #BOOMchallenge | By 𝐂𝐑𝐀𝐅𝐓𝐒Facebook

#DIY #BOOMchallenge

www.facebook.com

 

[rogertoolmaker]

Only you can decide this. We don't know what the part is or the sale value.

If you need to test the market spinning would be the cheapest for a small quantity. Press tooling will give better consistency.

Dies are expensive but you can build your own to keep costs down and get a stamping company to run it. Keep in mind that your die needs to fit their press and you need to be sure that they won't destroy it. Stamping companies will be leery of running a die built by a total novice.

There are Short Run Stampers that only do short runs.
Look in the "Thomas Register" for sources. Or take a look at type Whistler tooling or Laser. Justifying the cost of building dies in your own shop for this would be tough. Roger

 

[Hobby Shop]

I've done stuff similar from 16g in my 40 ton 4 post hydraulic. Shallow draw, big sweeping radius doesn't really push things too hard in my experience.

I've done a 14" diameter part almost exactly like that from 12g 4130N in a 35 ton H frame press using C-clamps for the pressure pad. I broke the press frame after a couple dozen, they weren't perfect, but I did them.

I’ve prototyped a few jobs the same way. Only have a single acting press but needed a double or triple acting press……that’s why they make 12-14” HD die clamps. Set the beads with the clamps, bolt the punch to a single acting ram and hit it.

With that little part I’d use screws for the binder. Put (8-10) equally spaced tapped holes around the oiled blank, snug them up a little more than finger tight and hit it. If he wanted to get fancy he could add a couple nitro or shedder pins in the punch to strip it off. Maybe add a few springs to lift it off the lower die section. Metal is .075” so there’s a lotta leeway.

Remove the part, trim the flange off on the lathe and ship it. There’s going to be a little tryout messing around with how tight the screws should be but it should be fairly straightforward. Off the hip I’d say 50-60 tons would get it done. Restrike if necessary.

 

[memphisjed]

Small-Scale Metal Spinning - Arrowmont School of Arts and Crafts

James Thurman · jamesthurman.com Workshop at a glance Metal Spinning is a unique way of creating metal vessels by forming it on a lathe and is rarely taught outside of industry. Workshop Description Although metal spinning is typically associated with larger scale industrial products...

www.arrowmont.org

 

[Ox]

FYI - "Stamping Journal" is the only trade journal that I know of that services the stamping industry. And in the process of making this post, I just now found out that the magazine has actually been sold by the FMA to the PMA. I've been thinking that I have been overdoo for a while for a new issue that normally comes with The Fabricator magazine every 2nd or 3rd month. Now I know why...

MetalForming Magazine Stamping-journal

Stamping-journal at MetalForming Magazine

www.metalformingmagazine.com

---------------------

I am Ox and I approve this here post!

 

[Garwood]

Seeing as this has resurfaced with no updates from the OP and I've percolated on it more I'd change my suggestion to this- Buy some kinda big brick shithouse hydraulic press you can use for general squishing/assembling/disassembling of stuff, but also prototype your part. Something in the 100-200 ton range. like a monster old C frame straightening press, 4 post trim press or even a forklift tire press. Maybe one of those big Dake H frame presses, but they're really flexible/flimsy and so damn slow you'd really want something with 10+HP with a real, serious cylinder that runs on 3k psi, not 10K psi. Talking like 10-12" bore hydraulic cylinder. They're out there. Usually pretty cheap too.

You can use the press for other stuff if the product flops. Big presses are really useful. Moneymakers if you have the biggest one in your vicinity.

Spinning lathes are not very useful for most people/shops.