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Need advice - Bad fire damage

All y'all that have been through the fire, what has that done to your ability to get insurance after the fact?

First off - I am guessing that in most cases - you were in a wood building, and now in steel?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Shop is in a concrete brick building with steel trusses and metal roof, with torch on membrane and gravel on top of that. Fire was in our wood shop, the old, thought to be a myth oily rag self combustion situation. Someone left a rag out after oiling some wood slats, which ended up catching a bunch of cedar we had brought in and stacked to finish drying before we started processing. Fire got so hot it warped the roof trusses and put a hole in the metal roof. Most of the damage though was the water putting the fire out.

We have been able to continue with our insurance company and premiums did increase, we hadn't had any previous claims in 30+ years.
 
What kind of "oil" caught farr?

I have buckets of oilly rags around, but I am under the impression that it is more like wood stains and whatnot?

Has anyone ever known a bucket of rags with cutting oil / coolant ever being a cause?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
What kind of "oil" caught farr?

I have buckets of oilly rags around, but I am under the impression that it is more like wood stains and whatnot?

Has anyone ever known a bucket of rags with cutting oil / coolant ever being a cause?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

It was Penofin oil wood stain/sealer.
 
What kind of "oil" caught farr?

I have buckets of oilly rags around, but I am under the impression that it is more like wood stains and whatnot?

Has anyone ever known a bucket of rags with cutting oil / coolant ever being a cause?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
Curing/oxidizing oils, Ox. Like woodworking finishes. Not mineral oils or lubes. Potentially could have a similar problem with exothermic two-part plastic cures, like epoxies or polyester resin. Basically, the rag or towel serves as perfect tinder, and if the oxidation or cure reaches about 450 degrees F, it can set off a fire.
I have a small metal bucket with a lid I use for shop rags and paper towels soaked with solvents and the like, but that's mostly to keep sparks or hot chips from setting them off rather than starving an oxidation.
 
One of my son's friends is a Fireman, and he related the story of the Marcal Paper Co fire that happened a few years back.
Fire got so hot, not only did the concrete and steel building collapse, but the asphalt in the parking lot boiled, and buildings 500 feet away had the siding and paint melt off. Thankfully, although surprisingly, given the intense conditions, no one was injured.
 
Has anyone ever known a bucket of rags with cutting oil / coolant ever being a cause?

Yes, they will. (The oily ones, never heard of coolant doing that). Don't trust me, my memory is shot, but look it up. Called "spontaneous combustion" but it isn't really, the oil on the rags if they are dense enough will react hard enough to create enough heat to start a fahr. That's why the regs say you need to keep them in metal containers with tops that close. You know those cans with the foot thing to pop the top open ? Those things. Honest, use them, we don't want to read about shops burning down.

And don't heat treat pieces of steel in the herringbone shaper's coolant tank (oil) ... don't ask how I know but it was new underwear time for sure. Once was enough. Once was too many. Trust me :D
 
Ok so insurance paid out. I exceeded my policy limit, but not badly, so not in the penalty range. If you're policy covers 80% of your stuff, no penalty. I will have enough to buy a new lathe and mill and minimal other stuff. Things will be tight for a while, but should be ok. I did lose a fair amount with not having total coverage, but on the upside, both machines will be brand new which is worth something.

So, almost a month to the hour of the fire and my still limping but functioning security camera sends me some images at 5am with people in my space. Called cops. Apparently they showed up but haven't called me. I get out there a few hours later and find the plywood door had been pried off, pallet jack and cart loaded by the front door. Not sure if cops ran them off or caught them, I hope to find out. Back to open carrying. I thought the area was getting nicer ;)

They got a bunch of building copper. Cut power cords of some stuff. They must have made one trip already because I know a dolly is missing and a bunch of 6061. The lathe had water get into the electronics. So, I had to cabinet open to air out. I was planning to rent a generator and get out there and try to power it up. Well, jokers got in there for copper wire, so not so much for powering up.

Last thing I'm waiting on is salvage bid from insurance. I might be able to buy the wreckage for pennies on the dollar. Chopsaw, air compressor, dryer, buffer all seem not very damaged, so we'll see. Buying a new mill will eat all the recoverable depreciation I can get out of insurance as I'll hit policy limit, so would be nice to take salvage. We'll see. Walking the F away also has appeal. Got new lease on 2000SF in much nicer area, so hoping to land new machines in a couple weeks.
 

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Ok so insurance paid out. I exceeded my policy limit, but not badly, so not in the penalty range. If you're policy covers 80% of your stuff, no penalty. I will have enough to buy a new lathe and mill and minimal other stuff. Things will be tight for a while, but should be ok. I did lose a fair amount with not having total coverage, but on the upside, both machines will be brand new which is worth something.

So, almost a month to the hour of the fire and my still limping but functioning security camera sends me some images at 5am with people in my space. Called cops. Apparently they showed up but haven't called me. I get out there a few hours later and find the plywood door had been pried off, pallet jack and cart loaded by the front door. Not sure if cops ran them off or caught them, I hope to find out. Back to open carrying. I thought the area was getting nicer ;)

They got a bunch of building copper. Cut power cords of some stuff. They must have made one trip already because I know a dolly is missing and a bunch of 6061. The lathe had water get into the electronics. So, I had to cabinet open to air out. I was planning to rent a generator and get out there and try to power it up. Well, jokers got in there for copper wire, so not so much for powering up.

Last thing I'm waiting on is salvage bid from insurance. I might be able to buy the wreckage for pennies on the dollar. Chopsaw, air compressor, dryer, buffer all seem not very damaged, so we'll see. Buying a new mill will eat all the recoverable depreciation I can get out of insurance as I'll hit policy limit, so would be nice to take salvage. We'll see. Walking the F away also has appeal. Got new lease on 2000SF in much nicer area, so hoping to land new machines in a couple weeks.

Were you able to get any tooling or vise? I was able to save some of our vise and tooling but getting to them and cleaning them up right away. But some of the commercial rust remover in a 5 gallon bucket and split it between a few buckets and filled them up with tooling and vise parts.
 
I forgot to mention people are pretty sure the fire was started by a dope lab a few units down. There's a video floating around from ring camera showing flash of light then a guy running off early that morning. Fire report said undetermined. Maybe the arson guys will get back in there when the excavators show up. Most of my tooling belongs to insurance unless I buy the stuff back. Lots of damage. I screwed around with vinegar briefly and pouring oil on some stuff. Maybe stopped the bleeding some. I don't have a place to work, so kinda limited. I will report back if I end up trying to salvage any.
 
Discussed more with my agent. Seems like when you get into co-insurance penalty territory it does take a bite. So, it's not just a payout cap, it's a further penalty on top of the cap, so not good. Speedio prices have gone up. Hopefully Ellison will be helpful. Haven't heard a peep from them since I bought the lathe 2 years ago. Inflation on these and others might put me over my limit. I'm just hoping I can get the mill and lathe again and find a space to start over. Small industrial spaces are tough to find here. I appreciate the advice.

Do you have a garage at home? It would be a pretty small garage that those two machines would't fit.
 
No, we have a shed. When we moved here, I was planning to build a garage and run the shop out of it. Thought better of it. Historic district.. no shortage of nosy neighbors. The thought did occur to me here after this, but still not a good idea. I'd just get shut down by code compliance and be back looking for a warehouse. I have worked out of a garage before. I like having separation between work and home too. I did find a couple smaller spots, ~800-1000SF. One was nice location, only single phase. They were not helpful seeing if I could up the panel capacity to run a phase perfect. The other could be upgraded to 3ph. I was on the fence between that one and the "cadillac" spot I chose. Went with cadilac. I'll have lot of room and it's well insulated. Post office in the complex and night security. They actually screen tenants, so probably no crack houses. My neighbor will be a machine shop which should be interesting. They don't have a website or anything. Yamazen rep knows them. Saw some old, grizzled guy outside on his phone when I was over there to sign a lease, so that's a good sign ;)

Gonna get the same lathe. Mill, got quotes for S500 with 16k spindle. Also one inbound for a Doosan SVM4100 mill, rep says he can get close to the price of an S500. 40 taper, 9k pounds, 12k spindle. I'm very used to the Brother, got a post processor that works, etc. Not sure I'll make the jump to the cat40 machine, but maybe worth considering. Thoughts? I make smaller parts. Not really production pace, so a slower machine wouldn't hurt overly. Having said that, I'm always impressed how much ass the Speedios haul. All that time does add up.
 
Getting there. Hope to be back in operation by month's end, so a solid 3 months of bs. I ended up getting a fancier S500. the new one has 28 tools and a 16k spindle. Also HSM look ahead and dual contact will be nice. I was really tempted to get a big DNM4500 instead. Ellison guy was really aggresive on price, but ended up just too much adventure for me at the moment. I just need to get back to some sort of normal and quickly. Doosan 2100A is now tagged DN solutions. I opted to buy back all my damaged equipment. Just had riggers again today for that move. Here's my motley crew of beat up machines. Shameful imports are towards the rear ;) except the router at the back is from GA. Looter cut cords all over, so will be a minute before I can check what turns on. A fair amount of damage done. The speedio has the least, so doing the buyback should make sense. Had A/C installed in the new warehouse. My A/C guy salvaged the condenser from the old place: 3.5ton for a 2000SF space in TX.. well it mostly works. I can keep it in the low 80s with a running start. It's about 108 every day here. Inside unit can handle a 5ton if I want to upgrade, but going roll with this one for now.
 

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So, new mill and new lathe, plus the old stuff that may or may not run, but will Shirley smell?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
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Can't say as I'm hopefully going to sell them. I had a range in mind considering what items were still useable, what I might get for the CNCs and how much time I'll lose messing with it. The salvage bid process was outsourced and that company was sitting on it for weeks. My guess is the CNC machines stumped them. Anyway, my claims guy picked a number and it was in my range. If they power up, I should do ok. Probably 4k just to move them plus lots of time I'll spend messing with them. Riggers showed up an hour early for both moves. Kinda annoying at 550/hr, but they were great. I had to sawzall out the roll up door as it was non-functional. I had laborers come out for a half day to clear the floor. Laborjacks.. not bad, kind of slow, but nice to get help. Got a few more things to grab out of there, but can't wait to be done with that place.
 

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