Vactra 2 waylube substitution

[i_r_machinist]

I'm out of Vactra 2 way lube. I know I'll get slapped around for this, but is there an equivalent substitution that I could buy from TSC. I have no problem paying $20 a gallon (after shipping) for Vactra. BUT, I live in a rural area and would like to play with this mill this weekend.
Thanks
i_r_machinist

 

[johnoder]

I used to laugh at the very idea until I tried it. Stihl (I have no knowledge of others) Bar and Chain oil.

Has plenty of "tackifier" where modern Vactra 2/3/4 has none.


I mix Stihl B&C half and half with Vactra 4


John Oder

 

[jackal]

John,

I thought about mixing it, but didn't have any idea for the ratio. That would work good for my brush on oil. Even though my machines oil OK from inside, I have a brush in a coffee can that I use to apply lube.


Kerry,

I know one one shop where the owner mixes STP and oil for the way lube.

Don't know the ratio, though.


JAckal

 

[Grind]

Outfit I used to work for mixed 1:1 ratio of 80/90 gear oil and Casite Motor Honey (may not be available now) for way lube. They did it for decades, no apparent ill effects.
I'll go put my flame suit on now.

 

[dgfoster]

I think the most important point concerning *using the mill this weekend* while you wait for the shipment from say Enco is that it really *does not matter* much what you use this weekend. Just use some gear oil or 30 weight or whatever. It won't do any damage to the ways if you just use SOMETHING.

For the long term, get your order in and the guy in the big brown truck will fix you up by early next week. Or mix your own brew and forget about ordering "official" way oil. If that is what John has been doing for years, given his experience, it would be hard to argue that point. I just buy the Vactra 2 when it is on sale and shipping is free.

My opinion, perhaps others will disagree.

Denis

I'm out of Vactra 2 way lube. I know I'll get slapped around for this, but is there an equivalent substitution that I could buy from TSC. I have no problem paying $20 a gallon (after shipping) for Vactra. BUT, I live in a rural area and would like to play with this mill this weekend.
Thanks
i_r_machinist

 

[Curt B]

Mobil Vactra 2 equivalents:

Shell Tonna 68

Exxon Febis K68

Texaco way lube 80

The wrong lube being better than none at all is usually sound advise IMO but I would use hydraulic oil over motor oil in this case.

 

[i_r_machinist]

Think I'll go with John on this one. Just happen to have a gallon on the shelf.
I wasn't going to run dry. If nothing else, I was going to put some 90 wieght cut with hydraulic fluid.

Jackal:
You start on that retro yet? I hope to get some play time with mach this weekend.
thanks
i_r_

 

[3t3d]

IIRC, the Shell Tonna 68 has less sulfur in it than the Vactra #2.

That translates to less coolant "growth" since sulfur is one of the major food groups for the organisms in the tank.

 

[Lakeside53]

I used to laugh at the very idea until I tried it. Stihl (I have no knowledge of others) Bar and Chain oil.

Has plenty of "tackifier" where modern Vactra 2/3/4 has none.


I mix Stihl B&C half and half with Vactra 4


John Oder

Until last year Stihl bar oil was "virgin" parafenic base and had Paratac - the same tackifier Vactra used until the late 90's... Now they do not, and do not disclose what it is. For all we know it's maple syrup. There is also a chance they've joined the rest of the Chainsaw world and use recycled oil.

I'm a Stihl tech... and I'd use any bar oil on machinery with caution...

 

[Dave Cross]

I'd try to find some Shell tonna 68, should be easy enough o find at a Shell card lock or oil depot.

 

[dgfoster]

I'm a Stihl tech... and I'd use any bar oil on machinery with caution...

Not knowing much about various oils, tachifiers, etc, I am interested to know the potential harm in using bar oils on ways of machines. Could you please expand on that note?

Denis

 

[JRIowa]

I can't believe that you only had 1 gallon of Vactra! That's like buying beer 1 can at a time.

John,
I hate to disagree with you, but Peritack was the tackifier that was removed from Vactra in the 1990's because it was not compatible with synthetic coolants. Everybody else removed it too, but Vactra is what is known here. Mobil developed other tacifiers and today's formulation is IMO just as good as the old stuff.

I hate when these threads get started, because there is some much bad information that gets put out there. Just because your buddies, friends, brother-in-law did it, doesn't make it right.

1. Unless it's 20 weight (not 20W) non-detergent motor oil, don't put it on a machine tool. Most automotive lubrication products have chlorinated esters, and sulfides to provide the EP designation. These are the items that are not friendly to copper alloys. Detergent motor oils will reek havoc on machine tool oiling systems.

2. Chain bar oil is as cheap as it gets. Stihl and Takasawa (IIRC) used to sell oil with a tackifier, but their formulation has changed in the last few years. I run used motor oil in my chainsaw, the trees don't know the difference.

3. If you want a substitute oil or something for odds and ends oiling, go to the big box store and get a quart of air compressor oil. It's usually about a 20 weight (ISO-46) with no detergents or additives.

Just my $0.02 lunch is over
JR

 

[AlfaGTA]

What JR said...i second!

Don't give a crap about the life and service of the machine, put any old crap in the lube system...It don't matter. Maybe the fast food joint down the street is ready to change out their deep fryer oil, i hear that the oil from potatoes mixed with the fryer oil is a great lube, and the used stuff is plenty cheap.....

Can't believe guys that have taken the time and effort to assemble a shop and machinery to do work would think about using anything but the factory approved lube....
It is not like the stuff is rare or really costly.
Cheers Ross

 

[johnoder]

My apologies to all those that actually use their machines to make a living. All mine never had to make money during my stewardship of them, and are really only here as a respite from being scrapped - which they will be on my passing.

By all means if your livelyhood depends on your machines, put lube in them / on them that reflects that.

Being old, I tend to forget that not all of you play at being in this game.

The last time I "turned handles" for a regular living was March 1972.

John Oder

 

[RC99]

There is always this oil series...Very sticky stuff Mobil Almo 500 Series

Castrol make a proper way oil as well Castrol Industrial - Slideway Oils

 

[cash]

I would be very cautious about mixing oil or putting other items in oil to act as tackifier.

I had a very bad experience where I tried a cheaper oil than mobil. The tackifier they used separated and turned to thick tar.

This caused a table lube system to plug up on one of my grinders and we had to rescrape the table.

I had to replace the lube meters in all my mills and grinders.

$20 may seem expensive but the alternatives are not.

 

[millman52]

To answer the Original posters question. Use a straight weight (20) non detergent oil. As soon as you scorce Vactra 2 give your machine a few daily doses of vactra to wash out the regular oil. Worse case scenario is your ways will begin to stick-slip upon stopping motion. Don't confuse sticking with galling. Thus the reason for way oil to begin with, to eliminate the stick-slip syndrome.


Mobil also makes a product that is suitable for both gearcase/hydraulic & way for machines like a shaper that has an internal pressurized lube system & ways that use the same oil source as the gear box. What I use is the Vacuoline 1409


Below is copied from Mobil's literature

Product Description
Mobil Vacuoline 1400 Series oils are extra high performance lubricants specifically designed to satisfy the requirements of machine tools that use one oil for both hydraulic systems and way lubrication. They are formulated using high quality mineral base oils and a unique additive technology that provides excellent lubricity properties to eliminate stick-slip and chatter of heavily loaded and vertical box ways. They exhibit a high degree of oxidation and thermal stability that increases the service life and helps keep lubricated surfaces clean and free from corrosion or deposits that could detract from finished parts quality and accuracy. Mobil Vacuoline 1400 Series provide the optimum balance between these divergent requirements.

These products are the result of an innovative technology to meet the low frictional properties required to assure acceptable production levels of quality parts with minimum downtime in today's high output machine tools. They exhibit the ability to inhibit oxidation and the formation of lacquers and deposits on ways and in hydraulic systems while providing excellent load-carrying performance to control component wear and extend equipment service life.


Features and Benefits
The Mobil Vacuoline 1400 Series oils have been developed to provide an extra margin of machinery protection by satisfying the requirements of hydraulic systems while meeting the stringent demands of the ways. Their outstanding oxidation and thermal stability characteristics improve machine cleanliness and reduce the needs for frequent maintenance services. The dual purpose nature does not compromise either hydraulic system performance or the stick-slip or chatter of ways allowing their effective use in both systems while reducing the potential negative effects of cross contamination of lubricants and water or water-based coolants.


Features

Advantages and Potential Benefits

Low Frictional Characteristics
Eliminates stick-slip and chatter of ways
Improves precision of parts


Applications
Machine tools with a common system for hydraulics and way lubrication
Applications where cross-contamination of way lube with hydraulic oil can result in poor performance
Machinery with separate systems for ways and hydraulics where one oil is desirable for both systems


Specifications and Approvals

Mobil Vacuoline 1400 Series has the following builder approvals:

Mobil Vacuoline 1405

Mobil Vacuoline 1409

Mobil Vacuoline 1419

BIJUR PT 37-1
X
X
X



Typical Properties


Mobil Vacuoline 1405

Mobil Vacuoline 1409

Mobil Vacuoline 1419

ISO Viscosity Grade
32
68
220

Viscosity, ASTM D 445




cSt @ 40ºC
32
68
215

cSt @ 100ºC
5.3
8.57
19.0

Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270
96
96
96

Copper Strip Corrosion, 3 h @ 100ºC, ASTM D 130
1B
1B
1B

Rust Characteristics, ASTM D 665A
Pass
Pass
Pass

 

[Lakeside53]

Not knowing much about various oils, tachifiers, etc, I am interested to know the potential harm in using bar oils on ways of machines. Could you please expand on that note?

Denis

It because you have no idea what you are getting, or the residual additives. Bar oil is often the lube that mixes in pipes when they change from one type to another.. or surplus hydraulic oils, or gear oil, or hydraulic oils... or whatever is cheapest at the time. And it's blended with whatever to meet a summer or winter pour point.

And if you are unlucky enough to get an oil with EP additive, it will eat away at bronze/brass parts.



Bio bar oils oil are just non-food grade Canola. They add God-knows-what (not in the MSDS) to tackify it.

 

[Lakeside53]

I run used motor oil in my chainsaw, the trees don't know the difference.

JR

Unlike new oil, used oil is toxic waste.... Never mind the legailities, the residual grit/metal tears up your oil pump, and... If "I" have to service that stinking mess (it gets everywhere), you can be sure it will take me a long time ($$) to clean it up.

In case you can't detect it, servicing saws that have used sump oil is my pet peeve.

my 2c...

 

[dgfoster]

Lakeside:

Thank you for your informative posts. I find that type of reply so much more helpful than "just do it the way the book says" and "don't question authority." I do respect authority but it is not beyond being questioned----none of us are.

Denis

"

It because you have no idea what you are getting, or the residual additives. Bar oil is often the lube that mixes in pipes when they change from one type to another.. or surplus hydraulic oils, or gear oil, or hydraulic oils... or whatever is cheapest at the time. And it's blended with whatever to meet a summer or winter pour point.

And if you are unlucky enough to get an oil with EP additive, it will eat away at bronze/brass parts.



Bio bar oils oil are just non-food grade Canola. They add God-knows-what (not in the MSDS) to tackify it.