FP1 and attachments for sale

[Milacron]

Hardinge TM, which has been a great machine but not in the same class as the FP1.

Yes, it has always been such a curiosity that Hardinge made masterpieces with their manual lathes but really dropped the ball with their quirky little mill.

 

[mTeryk]

Yes. I'm a welder by trade. I bought the TM primarily to cope tubing. For that job it is great. As I've done more and more machining with it, it's limitations have become evident. One thing it has done for me is to make me faster at changing setups as I can only fit one thing on the table at a time.

Teryk

Yes, it has always been such a curiosity that Hardinge made masterpieces with their manual lathes but really dropped the ball with their quirky little mill.

 

[wrench]

One question for the experts. I used a VFD to power my TM. I know the FP1 with its control box and accessory sockets is more complex. Any suggestions on VFD vs rotary to power this thing?
Teryk

Nice pickup, Teryk. You got a very good deal. Even though we are after the Deckel-Ebay peak in prices, you could still easily make up your money if you wanted to sell items off (hoping you don't.... I think it is kind of nice when this stuff stays together). Anyhow, you can use a VFD on it but if you do so then you don't want to put the cabinet between the VFD and the machine. When many people elect to go down the VFD route, they usually ditch the cabinet. But those folks rarely have the other accessories for which the cabinet provides power. For instance, the centering scope that you have derives its power through the cabinet. You could certainly generate that same power separately, but the cabinet has the advantage of interlocking the spindle so that you don't accidentally destroy your (expensive) scope by turning the machine on. Again, you can still develop the same logic, but it is just more work.

So, both the VFD and rotary are viable routes for you to go. Personally, at this point the VFDs are so cheap that I would likely do that if I didn't already have a rotary setup. BUT if I did use a VFD, I would definitely consider things like the spindle interlock in my ultimate design.

Alan

 

[mTeryk]

Thanks for the response Alan. I have no plans on selling anything at this point. I'm hoping I can recoup a decent portion of my investment by selling the TM. It's in good shape and reasonably complete with arbors, vertical head and VFD.

Once I get the FP1 home, I'll take a look in the cabinet and see about a VFD. I wired my TM that way (minus accessory power). I'm leaning toward a rotary so that I can get things under power quicker and sell the TM. I'm currently looking for a deal on a used one but haven't found one yet.

Teryk

 

[AlfaGTA]

Well i know this is most likely way out in left field and perhaps way beyond your budget....Perhaps doubling your investment.....
But being as you just bought your first real milling machine, i am guessing that your eyes will be opened to the point that
you will "need" to have more, real machinery! Real machines have 3 phase power and if your fleet expands the more sensible
solution to the power supply for a "complete shop" would be to bite the bullet now and just up for the Phase Perfect.

Provides seamless "almost" silent power as good as the utility company, literally no power draw in standby..can run multi devices at the same time,
and requires no consession as to how and where to switch active loads..allows direct connection to the machine, no problem. Even good for CNC machines
when you get to that point....

At any rate gold stars on making the move...good call, you won't regret your choice.
Cheers Ross

 

[adh2000]

Having made such a great deal on the FP1 package there should be plenty of money left over to pick up a Phase Perfect.

 

[wrench]

I'll +1 on the Phase Perfect.... But, as Ross and Alan (adh2000) both correctly point out, the PP is not an inexpensive way to go. Once you have it, however, you don't have to mess around with individual VFDs again. At that point you'll have a reliable, quiet and very (electrically) clean 3-phase power generation for all your machines and any you acquire in the future (well, unless you buy a massive CNC lathe!). Best of all, because it produces power that is so good, when you buy that nifty CNC mill down the road, you won't have to worry about which legs are powering the computer section, etc. Motors are tolerant of more abuse (dips and surges) but electronics typically are not.... The PP does an excellent job. Is it for everyone? I would say "yes, if you have the budget." But you certainly can live without it too, if you are watching your money, etc.

I'm not too sure how many people on this group have the PP. I know Ross and I do, but beyond that I am not really sure. I've seen a *few* show up on fleaBay but the installed base is small enough that I wouldn't hold my breath on finding one at any given point of time (i.e. waiting for a month and expecting one to show up). That said, I don't check ebay regularly either for 'em.... The reason there are not that many showing up is that PP owns the patent for using VFD technology in a phase conversion capacity (as opposed to using it to directly control a motor). To the best of my knowledge, they have not licensed the usage of this patent to anyone else, so prices are not likely to drop anytime soon.

Alan

Alan

 

[Milacron]

I'm not too sure how many people on this group have the PP. I know Ross and I do, but beyond that I am not really sure. I've seen a *few* show up on fleaBay but the installed base is small enough that I wouldn't hold my breath on finding one at any given point of time (i.e. waiting for a month and expecting one to show up). That said, I don't check ebay regularly either for 'em....

Anticipating the future move from my 480 volt 3 phase shop to a single phase facility, I bought a used (blue) 10 hp PP on eBay about three years ago for $1,500...plus $250 shipping.

It sat around for a year or more as I didn't need it but then I made the move to the smaller place and hooked 'er up. Needed more than 10 hp as of couple months ago and bought a new 20 hp PP.

I would never have bought the building I did if PP didn't exist as I have to have clean 3 phase without any hassels or compromises in capacity. Mine sits on top of a 30 kva 240/480 transformer where I have both voltages available to me. For 380 and 575 volts I use separate transformers.

 

[sneebot]

you won't have to worry about which legs are powering the computer section,

I have found this not always to be the case. The Fanuc controlled machines I have seem super sensitive and the controls act up if they are on the generated leg-- with the PP. Overall the PP has been great, no problems at all with other cnc controls.

 

[Milacron]

I have found this not always to be the case. The Fanuc controlled machines I have seem super sensitive and the controls act up if they are on the generated leg-- with the PP. Overall the PP has been great, no problems at all with other cnc controls.

Which Fanuc exactly and what does "acting up" mean in this case ? I've had no trouble in that regard with Fanuc 20, 20i, 21 and 21i controls.

I thought I might have had a PP electrical noise related problem with the Fanuc 21i on the infamous Harrison 1330 CNC lathe saga, but in the end the problem turned out to be a bad servo drive.

 

[AlfaGTA]

but in the end the problem turned out to be a bad servo drive.

Cheers Ross

 

[sneebot]

OTD-- made the (lathe) turret rotate in a random fashion (Wade 2000 cnc lathe)
OiMD-- TC acted erratically until I switched phases (Yes it was rotating all the cams in the correct direction etc etc.)(Hardinge GX710).

 

[Admin5]

OTD-- made the (lathe) turret rotate in a random fashion (Wade 2000 cnc lathe)
OiMD-- TC acted erratically until I switched phases (Yes it was rotating all the cams in the correct direction etc etc.)(Hardinge GX710).

Weird.... your mention of the Oi controls reminds me I have also used PP on a Robodrill with Oi-MC with no problems....but it was the new white PP....is yours the previous generation blue PP ? (not that it necessarily makes a whit of difference...)

Milacron

 

[Milacron]

Cheers Ross

Every time I think about it, it kills me that no one at Harrison, Clausing, TIE, Fanuc or here knew that when one servo amp goes bad on that lathe the resulting error implicates both axis...no matter which drive it is....first in line or last in line ...doesn't matter.

 

[AlfaGTA]

yes, makes one wonder how on earth a factory Fanuc tech would have found the problem....That fiber optic daisy chain linking looks good on paper
but not so if you are the one who has to sort it out. Thank goodness for similar machines with the same parts...
Cheers Ross

 

[sneebot]

Weird.... your mention of the Oi controls reminds me I have also used PP on a Robodrill with Oi-MC with no problems....but it was the new white PP....is yours the previous generation blue PP ? (not that it necessarily makes a whit of difference...)

Milacron

White 20HP.

 

[Milacron]

yes, makes one wonder how on earth a factory Fanuc tech would have found the problem....That fiber optic daisy chain linking looks good on paper
but not so if you are the one who has to sort it out. Thank goodness for similar machines with the same parts...

I wonder the same. I don't fault the Fanuc or TIE techs for not knowing....but it is inconceivable that no one at Clausing or Harrison UK knew. Was I the first person on Earth to have a servo amp go bad on a 1330 lathe ?? (and presumably same deal with the 330). The funny part is Harrison UK still doesn't know this (unless you told them) as the UK tech expressed zero interest in your finally solving the mystery so I didn't tell him what the problem was, and he didn't care to know !!

 

[traditional-tools]

That would be me. Not much to say at this point other than that I am super stoked.

I imagine you are.

Congrats, that is a great score!

There is so much tooling with that it makes me wonder if the seller even used all of it ?

That is one of the best scores I've seen in a long time.

 

[Erik]

Wow - congrats on your loot! An SK40 FP1 with the newer gear changers - that's what I was after originally.

And that's just about all the deckelstuff you'd ever want - or at least the expensive stuff.

I am RAL6011 (Deckel green) with envy over that silly price.

Cheers
Erik

 

[mTeryk]

Thanks for the suggestions. A Phase Perfect is not in the cards at this point. I do have an American Rotary 5hp rotary converter on the way which should do the job nicely for this mill.

There is so much tooling with that it makes me wonder if the seller even used all of it ?

I'm guessing that the seller hasn't used most of the tooling. I get the feeling he was collecting it with the intention of restoring/using it upon his retirement and then there was a change of plans. I'll post a thread soon with pictures and such but for now I'll just say that not everything fits. The right angle head doesn't fit this style of FP1, the riser block is for an FP2, the plugs on some of the electrical attachments don't fit the sockets in the control box .... Not complaining, it's still a very well tooled mill in great shape for a great price. I'll be able to use most of the tooling and sell or trade that which doesn't fit.

Teryk